How much should grandparents help?

[Daws100]

Hi,

Apologies in advance, this is quite a long one!
My girlfriend and I have been ?discussing? how much help we should get from grandparents (mainly my mum) in helping with babysitting. We have an amazing 19 month old daughter.
My girlfriend works two 12 hour days a week but is on a rota shift so only finds out what days she?s working for the month approx 4 weeks beforehand. Our daughter goes to a childminder for those 2 days til 5pm. At this point we have to rely on grandparents to pick our daughter up and take her home for her dinner until I get in from work at 6.30pm (I have to leave work early to make this time so no chance of leaving even earlier).

My girlfriends mum still works (locally to where we live) and is able to leave work a bit early to pick our daughter up for one day of the week, which is a massive help. She is normally available 99% of the time to do this and although doesn?t normally have many other things on in the evenings, would if needed, drop what she has planned to help out. Her mum lives a 5 minute drive from ours.
My mum is retired and also helps out a fair bit but tends to have a busy social life a lot of the evenings and days. Ideally we?d like my mum to be able to pick up my daughter the other day of the week. If my mum has say a month?s notice of days we ask her to babysit (before her calendar gets filled up with social things) and she is free on those days, then she happily does so and loves doing so. However, if she has social things already booked, then she won?t ever cancel or rearrange to pick up our daughter, unless it were to be a big emergency. So with say a month?s notice my mum is available about 80% of the time. If it?s say 2 weeks or under she?s probably available 40% - 50% of the time as by that time she normally has other things booked in her diary. My mum lives a 30 minute drive from our house.
I think one reason my mum puts so much importance on keeping a good social circle is my dad is potentially quite ill and so has it hanging over her head worrying that he might not be around for many years to come and so makes a lot of effort to see friends a lot of the time so she is not lonely if anything happens to my dad.

When my girlfriend thought about going back to work after having our daughter, I have to admit my mum insisted she?d like to help with babysitting where possible. At this time I don?t think my mum or I realised the days my girlfriend would be working would not be fixed and could change all the time, therefore making it a lot harder to plan babysitting around. But for any fixed days, this is mostly fine ? for example, when a 12 week course came up that my girlfriend wished to attend fixed to Friday?s every week, my mum could then plan for that, putting all those dates in her diary and successfully babysat for us for all days (apart from one where she was on holiday) so my girlfriend could attend her course.
My girlfriends also not a big fan of my mum for other reasons like my parents just bought my daughter one fairly small present for her 1st Christmas and birthday and then gave us a cheque each time to put in my daughters saving account, which my girlfriend thought didn?t require much thought from them. I also was a bit disappointed by this, but not as much as my girlfriend. Whereas my girlfriends parents bought our daughter lots and lots of presents for Christmas and her 1st birthday and really spoilt her. My parents also didn?t get us a card to say congratulations when my daughter was born either which annoyed my girlfriend. There have been a few other things like this, but those are probably the main kind of things. These things, together with the babysitting infuriates my girlfriend and she now pretty much hates my mum and I hear a lot of pretty harsh things said about my mum by her.

So, my girlfriends argument is that because my mum said she?d really like to help out, she thinks my mum should be available to pick up our daughter at least one day a week, any day of the week, depending on what days she is working that week (as after all, this is what her mum does without any problems). Because of my girlfriends work rota constantly changing, that day could be any day of the week (although mostly Monday ? Thursday). Most of the time my mum might have about 4 weeks notice, but on the odd occasion extra shifts come up at late notice for my girlfriend (within say a week) then she?ll also expect my mum to be able to be able to drop any plans she has and babysit our daughter then too. If it turns out my mum already has something arranged to see some friends, my mum says she can?t do it and sometimes won?t even just alter her plans by half hour or so to help as she doesn?t want to mess her friends about. My girlfriend gets extremely annoyed that my mum is not prepared to ever rearrange or cancel meeting friends so that she can pick up our daughter. She thinks she puts more importance on seeing her friends than helping us out. It?s kind of like a first come first served scenario with my mum and her time. My girlfriend thinks my mum is a bad grandmother and that she?s not being unreasonable at all in expecting this from my mum and that this is something that all other grandmothers would do (and do do when she compares us against people she knows with children).

My thoughts are that yes, my mum did say she?d like to help out a lot, but I think that has to be within reason with what?s being asked of her. We shouldn?t just ?expect? or take for granted that our grandparents should be able help at the drop of a hat and rearrange their lives around us and the working lives we?ve chosen to live. I consider it a big favour that they choose to help us out as much as they do and that given the unpredictable rota?s that my girlfriend?s work demands, that we do pretty good by both our grandparents. Although my mother isn?t available all the time (and is not as reliable and doesn?t do as much my girlfriends mother), the babysitting my mother?s already done and continues to do has saved us a lot of money and effort, which I?m very grateful for. I also think my girlfriend should perhaps be more grateful and is not being very realistic and reasonable in what she is expecting from my mum. At the same time, I can see perhaps why it annoys her when her mother is fantastic and helps all the time but sometimes my mother is too busy seeing her friends to help out, as this does get to me sometimes too. I think it probably also annoys my girlfriend that although I do sometimes agree with her and some things my mum does, that more so than not I?m more sticking up for my mum.
My girlfriends a great mother and girlfriend, but I think she may be expecting a little too much and shouldn?t be so harsh on my mum with what she says about her.

So bottom line is, should my mum be helping more and be more flexible in rearranging/cancelling things with her friends to help us out more? Or should my girlfriend maybe cut her a bit of slack and is perhaps expecting a bit too much?
We seem to be going round in circles on this and have reached a stale mate. Any thoughts would be much appreciated!!

Many thanks in advance for any replies.

Many thanks!

D

you see I have never understood this almost unanimous hostility about the expectation of grandparents to help.

I absolutely think they should help. It is not a sense of entitlement, but about family values to me. I never thought that you stopped being a mother and wanting to support and help your child the minute they become a parent themselves. Indeed parenting is the most intense and sometimes difficult phase of life. I know what I went through, so would I want to leave my cherished daughter floundering without support. No way.

Parenting to me is about family and investment in the generations to come. I will support my own when they have kids because I want to help them be the best parents they can be, to benefit what I know will be cherished grandchildren

The attitude of 'well I have done my bit' reeks of the selfish kind of attitude that breeds dysfunction in families in all sorts of ways. It is part of our culture though.

Of course grandparents deserve and have a life of their own. Some are still working themselves. But a balance can be met, if there is a good communicative relationship from the out set (but then that is often the problem). I reel when I hear about GPs who live round the corner and do nothing. Unless illness or exceptional circumstances prevent it, I cannot understand why you wouldn't babysit and help. The relationship between a GP and their grandchild can be so very special and rewarding but it has to be worked at.

Shocking

Oh and in a non selfish culture it would work both ways. My MIL helps me out but then I helped care for her elderly mother in her last years

EFA pinkyredrose as the mother of an only child I find your analysis to be an offensive and inaccurate stereotype

No need to be offended, alot of only children I've met have been quite spoilt that's all.

addressbook - if you read the OP you will see that the GM does an awful lot already. However there is an expectation from the OPs GF which is unrealistic and unfair.

I agree that it is nice for GPs to help out, but there is helping out and there is taking advantage. There is no real reason why the OP and his GF couldn't sort out their small childcare issue themselves. The GM is still offering babysitting and childcare where it is arranged in advance, and extra help when circumstances dictate (such as re. attending courses).

I agree with (I think it was) MrsDeVere in that the more help people receive the more they expect. I would not be surprised if the OPs GF wouldn't be satisfied whatever her MIL did to help.

RedHotPokers - and if you read my post you will see that it is in relation to the number of posters who think GPs should not be expected to help at all, not specifically to the OP

So those of you planning to go into homes which is all very noble I assume you still want the Dc's to visit, check you aren't being abused and potentially pay for it all should you run out of funding and savings ?
It's not as simple and clear cut as sending the DC's off to enjoy themselves they should feel a life long obligation to you as you have to them. Interdependence is how we all ensure our own families well being and survival. And what goes around comes around if you don't want to be visited on Christmas and Birthdays then being helpful to grown up children is the way to go I believe.

I really want OP to come back and tell us what his GF has to say lol

On the issue of the OP's particular circumstances; If you expect to rely on informal childcare to allow you to return to work, it has to be absolutely agreed beforehand. Not just "oh I'd love to help out" but "yes of course I'll be happy to have GC x amounts of time a week with x amount of notice. Otherwise you end up coming unstuck. Informal chilcare arrangements need to be as solid as formal ones. If they aren't, then you need to reconsider your job / hours.

On the issue of grandparents looking after GC; the strength of feeling on MN about "your child, your responsibility, so tough!" really annoys me. Of course becoming a parent means that you now come second, but everyone needs a break, or help to get through hard and challenging times. I definitely don't think GP's should be expected to drop everything or have no social life, but on the other hand helping and supporting your children, whatever age they are, is part of parenting, surely? My mum isn't well enough to look after my DS except perhaps once he's sound asleep for a few hours, but she would love to if she could. My MIL looks after DS for us when we need her to, I don't rely on this, I always give her loads of notice and make it clear it's a request not an expectation, and I'm always very grateful, but I'd also be very disppointed if she refused just because she now saw it as just mine and DH's responsibility to look after DS. I don't agree when people take the mickey, and there have been problems in our family before when others have got huffy that MIL wouldn't change her plans so they could go on a night out, but then I also do not understand GP's who refuse without a very good reason.

There's is a middle course. Not that it ever makes such interesting reading, mind. But it is possible to have a close family network that works on mutual support and respect. No drama, no crisis, no misplaced sense of entitlement. Oh, and no need to threaten the grandparents that if they don't deliver on the childminding front then they can expect to spend their declining years rotting away, unvisited in a sub-standard nursing home.

addressbook, the OP's mother does help out. She is just not prepared to drop everything on random days to cover the erratic nature of her DIL's job.

Of course it is nice for GPs to help out but I do think it is selfish to expect free childcare as and when it suits.

My eldest is almost 8yrs but when he was born both grandmothers worked f/t. Oner was HT in a large secondary school the other was head of children's services in her borough. Both worked close to 60hours a week. It would have been really selfish of us to expect them to be on tap, even at weekends, considering their lifestyles. Lots of people seem to assume that GPs are retired or working a little p/t job. Both our mothers were close to 60 at this point with no plans to retire. They would, of course, have helped in an emergency and both had a good relationship with DS but would it have been right for me to expect childcare? Not at all.

As an aside, the increase in the pensionable age will surely mean less GPs are at the disposal of their kids in future!

My MIL sometimes pisses me off but I have to say DW and I were lucky with her willingness (and FIL's but he died when DS was four) to help us. I used to take him to the library on a Saturday morning (talking ages about 5 to 8 now) and then leave him with MIL so DW and I could have a few hours together - he had his lunch there - then mid-afternoon I picked them up, brought them to ours, cup of tea, often joined by one or both BILs and their DWs and children (could be six children, eight down to a few months, and seven adults in a small flat, but we loved it) and eventually BIL or I took her home.

And often in the evenings too, for any of her DCs.

Happy days and I have become quite emotional as I remember them.

Couldn't agree more Pandemoniaa - of course it's great to help out if we can. And we do - as much as we can.
But we are entitled to enjoy the grandchildren too by just having visits with Mum and Dad present too. We babysit fairly regularly for nights out or have them for overnight stays with us. We also step in for unforseen circumstances because we want to help.

But it's never taken for granted and there is no sense of entitlement from our DD.
And that's the crucial difference here, Sounds to me like the OPs mum is doing a fair bit - but apparently that's not enough

Hi D, I have had many issues with my husband's mother but none were very petty things, they were things like being told to abort first child and being called a liar to my face etc. So while i think it is fine to have a grumble about the in laws and our own parents, we shouldn't get caught up on the petty things, it's just easier to all get along. I tolerate my MIL and it is fairly civil now but it will never be like it is with my own parents who give alot more. still, they are all family so each have their own importance despite their shortcomings.

I think it is unreasonable to expect a retired person to drop their social events to do childcare. Even if they adore their grandkids, they have a life too. I have recently read up on some research about the importance of social networks (friends, group meetings etc.) on people's health; particularly that of older people. It was eye opening. A retired person should strongly be encouraged to maintain their networks. It is right that your mother doesn't want to let her friends down and risk loosing these links. Like you say, she may fear one day being on her own. As you mentioned, a regular day was fine but not knowing one day/week to the next is hard as often meetings/events etc. are planned in advance.

Is it possible for the childcarer to do later finish times on occasion? Or to find out the shifts earlier? Or look for more regular hours. i know it is hard as I can't work due to other half's shifts. My parents work fulltime but can help in emergencies, husbands live few hours away. i don't expect them to help at all though other than emergencies.

I think your girlfriend is BU.

But I'm posting because I also wanted to say that you sound VERY reasonable - I read the whole post (it was a bit long...) and really admired how fairly you positioned it, with as little bias as possible. You seem very nice!!

"My girlfriends also not a big fan of my mum for other reasons like my parents just bought my daughter one fairly small present for her 1st Christmas and birthday and then gave us a cheque each time to put in my daughters saving account, which my girlfriend thought didn't require much thought from them. I also was a bit disappointed by this"

Im sorry but your gf is a selfish cow, and yes I did read the whole post. You parents give you cheques for your babies future and shes still not happy?? Good luck to you all, I think you are going to need it with someone like an attitude like that. I was grateful for any babysitting help my Mum could give us when DS1 was small, but I would never expect or presume. Sadly she died when DS1 was 10 and we were all devastated. Both of you have no idea of how lucky you are.

I am also a bit surprised by the posts on this thread telling the OP that his girlfriend should 'change to a job with more regular hours'.

Given the tight employment market and that she is obviously working in a role with a shift pattern, how is that supposed to fall into place?

If she had posted a thread saying that she didn't want to go back to work because of her 12 hour shifts and the childcare problems that would bring, there would have been lots of responses saying 'suck it up', 'that's being a working mum' or even 'can you arrange for someone else to collect your DD once a week?'.

But, branchingout, I couldn't just take a job at the other end of the country or one that expected me to do nightshifts because I have 3 young children at home and no adequate childcare in place for them.

If I wanted to do such a job it would be my responsibility to ensure my childcare arrangements were in place prior to me taking on that job/returning to work.

I wouldn't want my dcs to feel I 'should' help with childcare, but I would hope that they would like me to and I would do it when I was able to.

I wouldn't want them to think they 'should' look after me in my old age, but if they are visiting and are happy to change a few light bulbs or do a liitle DIY for me I'd be happy.

I agree with SpottyFrock

So those of you planning to go into homes which is all very noble I assume you still want the Dc's to visit, check you aren't being abused and potentially pay for it all should you run out of funding and savings ?

I would assume that they would want to visit-if it is dependant on duty and how much I helped them with their DCs -then I would rather they didn't bother! They are not going to pay for me.

My parents and ILs have always been 'hands on' grandparents-had them to stay overnight, babysat,been good in emergencies, seen a lot of them but they have never supplied regular childcare. They have lives! I will do the same-I don't think it is selfish, I think it would be very selfish of my DCs to try and take it away so they can be free to work etc! I have had a lifetime of going on holidays at peak times, I shall be going in the school term.

I didn't have my DCs for pay back.

I expect that as I was an older mum and they are nowhere near settling down, I will be too old to be much use anyway-if I ever get to be a grandmother!