to think middle class parents, when shite, are a special sort of shite?

[CrapolaDeVille]

I am middle class, I think, but find the overtly 'darling, sweetie' set of parents particularly painful. Obviously bad/good parenting isn't reserved for any group or set, but I have only noticed middle class parents do the 'push my child first, I couldn't give a crap about fairness' sort of parenting.

EG. Today my 2yr old at a picnic with pre schoolers and their younger siblings. (dc4 was celebrating last day at preschool.) I gave dc5 my phone to flick through a story so I could eat my lunch and could stop running after him. Another child, boy aged 4, called (let's say) Jim wanted the phone. I said no as my dc was looking. He could look too. He tried to snatch making my dc5 upset (in that screamy frustrated 2 yr old way) Jim's mother says "you can share Darling" as Jim is crushing my child who is half his size, she deosn't ask him to get off. Now my dc is crying, she says "share Darling, come on" (I'm not sure who she is talking to) So then awkwardly I have to say "Jim you're crushing dc5", he tries to take the phone. So I put the phone back in my bag...."I want that phone" Jim says. I say "no it's away now". Jim pushes into me and punches me full force with both fists. Mother says FUCK ALL. Not five minutes later she tells him what " a good boy" he is and "so gorgeous" she could eat him Darling sweetie. She's so proud of his behaviour at the picnic,.

EG. DC5 gets scratched on the face with a stick, by a 4 yr old looking straight at me. Mother sort of shrugs and says nothing.

DC5 later on a bit cross and kicks a nearly empty bottle over, sheer naughtiness and devilment, before I can even speak mother of stick weilding child shouts "for goodness sake DC5" then spots me and says sorry. I was so fed up by this point that I just said "to be honest I expect nothing less from X parents" and left, in the knowledge that I'll never see them again.

EG Two little girls tell DC5 to get off trampoline saying 'it's ours get off', DC5 complies. Then I give him his football.....they come over shouting at him to share, but as he's only just got it he wanted to kick it first. I just found myself supporting my son in not sharing, even though I think it's important to share, I'm really cross with myself.

This is my last child. I have spent the last ten years watching my dcs play fair, take turns and be generally kind only to see the other mc brats not only put themselves first but parents whole heartedly endorse and encourage this behaviour.

I do know lots of other nice mc parents, but this type of parent is completely reserved for the middle class slightly older mother.(AGAIN to reiterate this is not all mc parents.)

Actually most of the women there today do have nannies. (sorry SWC)

What I find puzzling is the wealth thing? Why would affluence have this effect? Could it be other things, like both parents working to maintain a certain lifestyle means that they do less of the crowd control during the week and are less skilled at it? DH and I both work by the way, I don't mean working parents are shit or anything like that, we are utterly brilliant after all.

Or could it be that some of the behaviours are just learnt within a group, and so you get a vicious spiral of uselessness amongst some parent communities? We live in rural Derbyshire and I really notice a difference in attitude when I take DD to stay with my Mum in the wanky middle class London suburb that I grew up in. Parents at playgrounds and the like are much more hands off. I assumed that was because round here everyone knows everyone and you don't want to be the parent of the child who is known for 'pushing babies off slides'. Whereas in a more densely populated area the cost of having a child behave like a little sod is lower since people won't necessarily know it is yours (in other words I'd be a slacker too if I thought I could get away with it!).

That is the third time I've seen LeQueen called smug in the last few days

fwiw - you don't come across remotely smug to me - not in any way.

Agree with LeQueen. :)

God help my children if they ever, or had they ever, behaved like those in the OP. In fact, God help other people's children if their parents sat by and did nothing whilst their brats punched me or deliberately scratched my 2 yo's face with a stick.

I do know the kind of MC parents spoken of too and have seen this behaviour in action. Of course not all the offenders are MC but the largely MC, liberal-voting city I live close to seems to have far more of this type than is bearable.

I predict that Jim is going to get his head kicked in when he starts school if he continues to behave so appallingly.

Yup, and these are the exact same parents that teachers have to deal with every day of the week In fact it is the very very rare parent who will accept that their child has behaved badly at school - it's always some other child's fault. And of course that's exactly what the child thinks too so every time you reprimand a child the immediate response is either "But Billy is doing it too Miss!" or "But Billy started it!"

Children are very rarely encouraged to take responsibility for their own behaviour and it is so incredibly frustrating for teachers. If we're into stereotyping here it was only when I began teaching in a school with parents who were mainly of Asian and African descent that I rediscovered what it was like to meet respectful children who were willing to accept that they had been naughty and move on. This came from parents who listened to what we said and didn't immediately get defensive and claim that Griselda and Rupert were God's Gift to Childhood who Must Be Given Freedom To Be a Beautiful Flower. And do you know what, those lovely Asian and African children were happy, carefree children who got on really well in school and didn't constantly fight with teachers and try to shift blame on everyone else. If there was an incident you just had to say "Please stop that," they would say "Sorry" and order was restored. God I loved that school.

YANBU OP, I've met hundreds of those parents and they're mainly MC.

YANBU. I've seen this sort of behaviour in my very middle class surroundings. Middle class does not = actual class or manners. However, I don't think it's commonplace, tbh, it's just a few idiot parents who themselves come across as self-centred and entitled.

In fact, my DH's goddaughter is just like "Jim" and DH's group of friends have pretty much stopped seeing the parents (themselves utterly self-centred and entitled) because they do nothing about her behaviour. I feel sorry for her, because she'll get a rude awakening one day. But I don't want her in my house or near my children.

I wholeheartedly agree with the "sharing" meaning "give it" attitude too. Actually, I think it can be a bit undermining for your own child if they are constantly made to "share" things in circumstances where, either the thing is in fact their property, or it's a toy in a playgroup like setting and they've barely touched it before it's being snatched off them. I particularly hate it when it's toddlers doing the snatching off little babies and being none too gentle about it. I have to say I will intervene if I think my child is being treated unfairly or roughly, just as I'll intervene if one of mine is treating another child unfairly; albeit that I'll be feeling slightly terrified of the parent's reaction while I'm doing the former!

YANBU.

The sharing thing - it's not PFBness, it's downright laziness.

It's far easier to force some other child to "share" than it is to discipline your own child for being a grasping gobshite.

Comments which come to mind include:

"He doesn't have to share if he doesn't want to..." (as he snatches a toy back from a toddler, pushing toddler over in the process, despite that he wasn't playing with it and wasn't likely to be).

"He has the right to express himself..." (as he tells his grandmother to get stuffed and that he doesn't care because he can do as he likes and she can't stop him).

"He's only a baaaaybeeeee!" (No he's fecking not, he's five FFS and old enough to know not to spit at his classmate).

Sound familiar, folks?

Class ids endemic in England. But its a matter of opinion

I currently live in a socially deprived area - and there alot of entitled parents as well as the I the 'I know my rights brigade'.

Honestly - that and a few adult things like DH boss getting away yet again with bloody murder again by assuming rules do not apply to her or me wondering why I bothered with getting a good education as I now know several people who've admitted they or family have used grades not theirs and gotten jobs off it - make me wonder why I am teaching my DC that rules apply to them and they should be nice and considered other and work hard.

The local park had a charity plant loads of bulbs in it. I've told my DC not to pick the flowers - only to see everyone else wondering off with arms full - then we see people - local residents -actually digging the bulbs up and taking them. I then have to explain why they are still not allowed to pick the flowers.

Same with bikes - they are not allowed to ride then to school - but several parents have taken to getting their DC to do that then chaining the bikes up inside the school property and leaving them all day - apparently the rules just do not apply to them and nothing is ever said to the parents involved.

Rant over < and breathes> - we've just started to wonder if teaching the DC rules social or otherwise apply to them is actually going to hold them back in life.

high-spirited - aggressive
individual - nope, just really annoying
verbal - arrogant
in his own little world - has never been encouraged to listen

Only way is to keep to your own sort.

I have to constantly ignore the biggest BRAT in the world because next year my DD will be on the same school bus and I have to think about being political. This child is truly the spawn of the devil. The mother NEVER tells her off and she just smerks in that way that makes you want to slap her. This mother and daughter combo fit into the older working mother stereotype. People who think money buys everything.

The sad fact is the world is full of these people. Try to keep away from them, find nice people to mix with and remind yourself that there are lots of consciencious parents out there who bring up nice children.

Penguin, I know the picking flowers argument ("But everyone else does it Mummy!") too well and I'm with you on that but what's this business about not being "allowed" to ride a bike to school? I'm presuming that this isn't your rule... whoever else, apart from the law, can tell a person how they may commute? I'm confused!

Totally disagree smallwhitecat - but I would say that as a foster carer to children who turn up practically feral with no social skills who leave my care with decent manners and an ability to be part of society.

I don't believe in any way in inherited behaviour - in my opinion, it's all nurture.

It's not class based, it's just having a sense of entitlement which is common across social/economic classes, unfortunately.

Sorry swc, didn't realise you weren't talking about inherited behaviour.

Apologies