FFS ! my SIS again ! to paraphrase Sigourney Weaver "the b***h won't die"

[kitty4paws]

Brief back story ( at risk of boring to death those who know it sorry )

Dh has severe short term memory loss, can't remember stuff from 5 minutes ago.

During visits to MY sister (though of course I only have SIS word for it [humm])

1. DH has decided that all their converstaions are private and confidential
2. SIS has started to arrange a second opinion for my DH
3. DH has given written permssion for SIS to have access to his medical notes
4. SIS has decided on a different diagnosis to that put forward by his HCP
5. DH/SIS have organised a counselors appointment for DH
6. DH has arranged for a meeting with DH's GP that only SIS was to attend

SIS did not tell me ANY of this directly, I found out about it by pure chance,I was not included in any way.

After all this DH and I talked and he wrote a letter to SIS asking for information that SIS refused to give me. The letter asked for a reply by email, it did not ask for a face to face meeting or any other contact.

SIS took it uoon herself to talk to DH about the letter and , surprise , surprise [roll] he "decided" to ask her to ignore the letter and thus none of the questions WE had agreed uopn were answered. aaarrgghhh !!!

Now SIS also wants to attend all appooitnmets and be "an intrumental part" in DH medical affairs.

My Dh WANTS her at the appointmets, but I feel physically sick at the thought of sharing personal inormation about our lives ( me and DH) with her

what do I do ?????

Every time I get her to back off she waits a while and then gets in contact with DH again and suddenly every thing we discuss as husband and wife is turned on its head as soon as he speaks to her.

Legally DH is entitled to who ever he wants in his appointmetns and SIS is very,VERY careful to make sure she stays on the "right" side of the law but morally , well (sigh) I just do'nt know ,

so come on collective wisdom of MN help me out !

But clearly a second opinion was needed because his condition's diagnosis changed... And added to that presumably her DH told Sis about what was in his records (or at least gave her permission, even if he couldn't remember doing so).

I don't see what harm having a second opinion could do (other than annoying the OP at an already stressful time) but if Sis wants to do this, then let her. It won't affect the quality of her DH's care and may actually give her some more time to herself if Sis is looking after him.

I think that wanting access to notes is odd.

But, if husband wants his SIL at appointments, why would you override that, OP?

Does he ever ask for her to be there, or is it always her idea?

northern have you read the other threads?

diddl the problem seems to be that all these discussions between sis and op's DH take part in private. He cannot remember what has been discussed and she is being secretive about it, arranging appts without telling OP.
It is detrimental to continuation of care and actually abusing the DH when sh eknows full well that her interference is not welcome.

I dont know how anyone can justify the sister's behaviour. I would no more interfere with my SiL's medical treatment than fly to the moon. Much less keep secrets with my SiL from my DB. It's wrong, it's weird.

I know that the OP is sure that the relationship between her DH and sister isnt sexual and I respect that but there is something profoundly wrong in the way the sister is acting. Almost as though she wants to push the OP aside and take her place.

The OP has said that her husband's condition can improve. What will the mad sister do then. I shudder to think.

I think the OP has had earlier threads about her sister removed. As I understand it the information in those threads suggest that the sister is unequivocably BARKING MAD.

From this thread alone one can see that the sister's need for secrecy and control are perverted. She shows no respect for the OP and she shows no respect for the DH by marginalising his wife/main carer who, of all people, should be a part of his ongoing treatment and care needs.

"diddl the problem seems to be that all these discussions between sis and op's DH take part in private."

Which is why I wondered if OPs husband ever asks for his SIL to be there or is it a case of SIL asking when the next appointment is as OPs husband has asked her to be there.

Also, did the sister take OPs husband for a second opinion without the OP & if so, was it that that has brough about the new diagnosis?

Glad to hear you are taking this legal Kitty, you've tried to stave this off, but you are going to have to exclude your sister, and anyone that facilitates her interference with your family from your lives.

You've tried every other way.

queenrollo - no I freely admitted I haven't. But from the information here, it sounds like although this is intensely annoying, the Sis isn't actually doing anything to harm him and appears to be doing what she thinks is best, even if the OP happens to disagree with her on that.

If he genuinely can't remember the appts which sis has arranged, then how does he get to them? Presumably Sis is being relied upon for some element of care since otherwise she'd not be able to whisk him away to these things. And if she's caring for him and is a health professional then possibly she has a more objective view than his emotionally involved wife?

The only bad thing she is doing is going against the OP's personal wishes (which is very bad - I am not denying that). And it sounds like the Sis is pushing for more investigations, more referrals and second opinions whilst the OP is accepting what she's being told, to the point that the original diagnosis was wrong.

Presumably the OP looks after him the majority of the time so can monitor what drugs he is taking, where he's going etc. so would not be unaware of any radical changes to his treatment. If she's being frozen out of appointments in favour of her sister, then maybe there's a good reason for it - perhaps she gets very upset or doesn't want her husband to question the doctors or perhaps it's just too upsetting for him to have her there? The main thing is that he is an adult, and should be involved in the discussion about what happens.

northern - as you haven't followed this from the beginning then you are not getting the full picture. If was as you say then OP would probably be acting a little unreasonable.

But it's not. Her sister has been very manipulative and continued to interfere despite being asked not to.

"Now PLEEEEEEASE drop the sex thing !!!!!" I'm so sorry OP. I can't beleive that some posters can be so obtuse and resent that fact that you will not spell something out explicitly which you feel (quite rightly) is a private matter for your Sis and not your place to be splashing around an public forum.

From memory Sis's involvement has not lead to any improved care or the re-evaluation of the diagnosis. Sis does not live with OP's DH and therefore does not have a full picture of his condition and therefore can be misleading when discussing it with doctors in the absence of OP.

I'm afraid OP you need to get blunter with your DH (I think there is little point getting any blunter with your Sis unless it involves a contract ) - have a tatoo made on the back of his hand "If "Sis" attends any doctors appointments then I will leave you. Her presence is causing significant friction in our relationship".

Sorry you are having this stress.

Northern41 its worse than you think. The sister is taking advantage of his inability to remember to seek access to his medical records etc. IIRC Kitty found evidence of the appointment booked into his phone where he records things otherwise there is a very real risk that OSIS would have taken Kitty's DH to an appointment without her knowledge despite the fact that Kitty's DH would not have remembered what had happened in the appointment or even the fact that the appointment had taken place. She is not his next of kin, she is not his primary carer and she is going against the direct wishes of his primary carer. He is too vulnerable to make these decisions for himself.

Kitty If necessary I would tell people that the main appointment has changed and stay in a hotel. You really do need to go down a more formal route now as your DH's decision making is impaired as he cannot retain sufficient information to weigh up all the facts. If you were to explain something to him that took 10 minutes to get through would he remember the start of the explanation?

But ChazsBrilliantAttitude - how would that happen?

How would Sis get DH out the house without her knowledge unless she has some degree of access? And more to the point, her DH clearly wants the intervention when she arranges these things, even if he has no knowledge of them later - otherwise he would just say no.

After the extra appointments, if there was extra medication then how would he remember to take them without Kitty reminding him and therefore knowing about the new treatment?

I'm just not seeing how she can make significant changes to his treatment without her or his doctors knowing about it - and the doctors won't let anything bad happen since he's under their care.

But I think the main thing here is that her DH - for whatever reason - wants to have her involved, even if he forgets that his wife doesn't want her involved. Why is that? Unless you actually get to the crux of that question, he's just going to continue to involve the Sis.

"He is too vulnerable to make these decisions for himself."

Which is why I don´t understand how the sister has been able to make appointments & access medical records.

He goes to visit OSIS on his own which gives Kitty a bit of respite as there are other issues surrounding her husband's behaviour.

If he can't remember what Kitty has said about going to other appointments, not giving permission to see your medical records to third parties etc its very easy for OSIS to say to him "Kitty and I want you to sign this letter to allow me access to your medical records" and he won't remember that Kitty has in fact told him the opposite and that he agreed with Kitty at the time.

I didn´t realise that he went there as "respite".

No wonder the sister feels she has a right to be involved.

I can see how she has manipulated, what I don´t get is why HCPs don´t question it.

I read your other threads...I think you need to get an order against her, stop trying to have a relationship and get her out of your lives for good.

Inform your GP in no uncertain terms that she is denied access to any medical notes for all members of your family, and the police will be involved if your wishes are breached.

Keep going down the legal routes available because I think, sadly that is your only option, she will not listen and back off any other way.

I remember your previous threads, this is probably not helpful but have you tried a simple fuck off? Stop interfering, I don't care what dh says I don't want you near him now fuck off and while you're there fuck off some more. I feel for you and Im not clever enough for proper advice but she sounds completely unhinged to me.

Power of Attorney is not as straightforward as you might think. In order to take over someone's affairs you have to get doctors to sign that they think the person is no longer capable of managing. And they don't see making 'unwise' decisions as incapability. Also the powers can vary significantly according to how it was set up. As Attorney you don't get to pick and choose which aspects of the persons life you take over - it seems to be all or nothing.
OP's situation has some similarities with mine - parent with early dementia esp memory problems plus sibling after the money interfering.

But depob in that situation surely the most sensible thing is to give POA to someone outwith the will? That way your sibling can't claim that you are the "money grabbing" one and they are merely looking after parent's best interests...

In this situation it seems like the OP is just hellbent on doing things her own way - which could be called into question at a later date since her husband clearly wants the sister involved. I honestly think it would be better to get an external person involved at this point - be that a lawyer or court appointed guardian for her husband or someone outside of the family. Then there's no question of whether the OP is doing what she thinks is best for herself, her family or for her husband. I suspect this is a real danger if she starts trying to cut off contact with people he clearly wants involved.

northern - I don;t think for one second that OP is "hellbent" on having her own wa. I suggest you search for some of her previous threads. She has repeatedly said that if it just impacted on her DH she would put up with the situation but her Sis is getting very personal detials about their private life which she is unhappy sharing and her DH agrees but then obviously can't retain that information which Sis uses to get involved again.

Surely you would have a POA with your DH affairs? If he can't remember 5 mins ago he could be doing all sorts. Having you as POA would block your sister from accessing anything. She sounds deranged.

northerngirl. My understanding, from previous threads is that the DH has not been consistent on whether he wants the sister involved. In the past he has said to OP that he doesn't and then it seems that the sister inveigles her way in and he changes his mind.

Also, the issue as I see it is not whether the sister manages to get his treatment or medication changed. The issue is that the sister has 'access all areas' to the OP's life. If you are not close to your sibling and they have a history of belittling you and riding rough shod over your wishes why would you accept that?

Perhaps you have a close relationship with your family and if this was you their motives would be entirely honest. Judging by previous threads, the sister's motives are dubious.

What's not to get?

Northern : "And it sounds like the Sis is pushing for more investigations, more referrals and second opinions whilst the OP is accepting what she's being told, to the point that the original diagnosis was wrong."

You could not be more wrong !

SIS is pushing for what she THINKS is best for Dh, without any referal to his HCP / notes / behaviour on a daily basis . She just goes off the cuff. the original diagnosis was not wrong through any fault on my part, neurology is very subtle and many illnesses present in very similar ways. I am also pushing for second opinions etc and if SIS had just SPOKEN to me insetad of excluding me then she would have known that.

Also you are wrong to think that her being involved in DH medical care wont be harmeful becasue his HCP will somehow "protect" him.

For instance she does not believe in Anti Depressants, just thinks that most people would , in effect , "get over it" within 6 weeks and AD take 6 weeks to have a full effect.

Form my reseach I know that AD do work , for some people they are totally life transforming,( not that they are the only solution I know but as well as suppport / therapy etc) and for "some" people AD are not the answer but therapy alone is.

Soooooooo presently I have a DH who appears to have waaaay less mood swings / outbursts since his new AD seem to have kicked in and SIS would think they were all a waste of time and most probably convince him to stop. and who would bear the brunt of his re-emerging temper , not SIS me and DC.

Norther "OP is just hellbent on doing things her own way"

In some ways I now have to treat Dh like a child and be the "adult" to protect him. I can see the bigger picture he can not.

Imagine you have a 15 year old daughter who was having "converstaions" with a 40 year old man online that you felt were not in her best interests and you had warned the man off and DD agreed that it was the right thing to do.
Then two weeks later you find this man had convinced your DD to get back in touch ,without your knowledge via another means of communication , maybe even aranging to meet up in person.
Who would you find fault with, the Man or your DD, I bet you would be "hell bent on getting you own way" for the sake of your DD and get that man out of her life ASAP.