For being furious at DH telling DSD that my degree isn't a real degree?

[TooFarGone]

So DH is sat down with his DD taking about careers etc. He says to her "these days, you need a job that pays at least £20k a year but at the same time, you don't want to be stressing yourself out with difficult degrees and stuff. You want to enjoy your time at uni. That's why I think nursing would be ideal for you! you get to go to uni, you don't have to do a difficult degree and you get a well paid job at the end of it!".

So DSD says "But isn't a degree in nursing going to be just as difficult?" and he replied "no course not, they call it a degree but its not like a real degree".

I'm furious as I worked bloody hard to get my degree and he knows this. It isn't an "easy option" at all. I had it out with him and he apologised for upsetting me but still maintains that nursing is an easy alternative to doing a "real" degree.

I dont think its very helpful to keep quoting that particular blog -it was written in MARCH 2008 .
Since the CQC investigated Staffordshire there have been huge changes in the way food is served to patients,All non essential (at that moment) care stops - so dressings etc and ward rounds - noone is allowed to interupt patients eating.This was often a big problem - food gets cold whilst dr is seeing pt and is then left un eaten.Obviously if there is an emergency -the staff dealing with that will carry on .
Any pt who is deemed at risk has a red tray,jug and glass - the catering staff are NOT ALLOWED to remove it until the nurse in charge has checked and recorded the intakeon food /fluid chart and then signs a slip which is left on the tray. Pts are also referred to a Dietician and any supplements they are having are prescribed by the dietician .

I should add that if my ward was that shortstaffed -2 RN 2 HCA for 25 very dependent pts I would be ringing the CQC myself !

Well you come across here as very professional type of person and that is good for any patient under your care.

I know I've gone on a bit, but while I accept that nurses may have more complex tasks to perform than feeding and that assistants may feed instead,
I really think the attitude by some expressed here that ensuring patients have access to food and water is not at least a part nurses job unacceptable. Really unacceptable.

I would expect every nurse who couldn't ensure these needs are met to be upset and angry and not come out with crap like 'not my job'.
Well sorry but it is (oh yeah just one job out of a thousand but still part of the job all the same) and to have a 'f* you, get it yourself' attitude stinks.

So to sum up: Yes I appreciate nurses may have more complex tasks to attend to, that things may prevent nurses from giving adequate nutrition, but to say: 'it's not my job to anticipate that a sick person gets food and water' (which is the attitude of some here) is just terrible.

I have never in all my years of nursing on acute wards heard anyone say or have the 'f*you,get it yourself' attitude .
Itis the job of nurses to ensure patients have adequate nutrition and care -the thing that may stop them is when there are not enough staff to required provide the levels of care required.
Nurses are angry about this - look at the RCN no vote of confidence in Andrew Lansley. Nurses all around the country are informing management that staffing levels must be improved because they care !
Instead of constantly berating nurses on internet forums go and do something really useful -
Write to the government demanding legal nurse/patient ratios -every other country except the UK has this and we call ourselves a civilized country. This is the real issue

I think you are so ignorant Wamster, you claim to have been a Nurse at some point so I'm surprised at your ignorance. The OP's post was about nurse degrees, you've started banging on about how Nurses with degrees can't fill water jugs, care for patients etc..., but I distinctly remember these issues occuring in days when most Nurses didn't have degrees aswell due to SHORT STAFFING. You say you want Nurses to stand up and argue for better care yet you don't think they need degrees to do this. In my position, I use my knowledge gained on my degree (and the Masters I am doing now) to argue for better resources and training and guess what, I am getting better resources and training and patient care is getting better because of it. Evidence based research is a valuable tool in changing managers minds.

I think it naive to think that research changes managers' minds.

wamster sorry i havent had the time to trawl through the whole thread ,so you may have already been asked these questions

1. didnt the ward have domestic staff ? these are the people who come round with tea/coffee/water jugs
2. had someone left a nil by mouth sign above your bed
3. did you have a call bell ? to alert nurses if you needed anything ?

I am a nurse and i will hold my hand up and admit that i make mistakes , sometimes because im run off my feet and sometimes because i am human . I always admit to and try and learn from mistakes i make . I became a nurse for i believe all the right reasons ,there are some people who i work with ,who perhaps should be in other professions . I do appreciate that when you are ill ,in hospital , that what seem like small things to some people have a huge impact on your experience .

As for the easy degree malarky , what one person finds easy might be difficult to another . I have a friend who has a degree in pure maths , he couldnt dissect a piece of research if his life depended on it or apply ethical theories to real life clinical dilemmas . And he still pronounces three with an F , three years reading pure maths and he cant say three !

bumpsoon a key thing to note in this whole thread is that Wamster at no point requested any water.

Its a degree, meaning that you have reached the required level to practice in your profession. How can this be anything other than an achievement?

Yes, there are lots of problems within the health service and poor practioners. I worked in social work for years and it faces similar issues of increased demands and reduced spending.

I would expect it to be recorded if a patient wasn't eating but for godsake Wamster what the hell prevented you asking for a drink of water?

Forget my water experience. My experience led to me to look up other cases of such things which, frankly, are more important.

catgirl1976, is using my personal experience to deflect from what many would (rightly) deem to be a much, much (x 1000) more bigger scandal i.e. the report by the Care Quality Commission's report of this year that found that 3 out of 12 trusts in England were failing to meet the elderly's need for nutritional needs.

These people -presumably- have no bias and are being honest.

Wamster I would agree that the issues highlighted by the CQC report are a scandal. However, I would not agree they are down to individual nurses, the attitudue of nurses or the qualifications taken by nurses. I would argue they are down to the mis-management of the NHS. And you entire thread seemed driven by your inability to get over the fact you spent a few hours in hospital without water. I am glad you have found a bigger issue to focus on but you are still maligning nursing as a profession.

Wamster, you claim to have no axe to grind but this thread it littered with your snidey, belittling, mealy mouthed digs at Nurses.

Not sure of the origin of the issues you seem to have with nurses or nursing but I'm not sure it adds to your credibility in the context of this discussion.

"If she is averagely bright (I don't mean this disrespectfully) then I would say he is absolutely correct as nursing may be well-suited to her academic range.

If your daughter is REALLY clever and capable of so much, much more"

"Be a nice little nursie when she could be so much more. He's doing this kid down!"

"you don't need to be Einstein to do it." you don't need to be Einstein to be a world renowned physcist so I'm not quite sure of the relevance tbh

"But that is a lot of nurses for you; they want the 'glory' of being a profession without the actual responsibility"

"You think that a lawyer who got this simplest of things wrong would not take responsibility AND feel a bit of a tit? Nurses won't and can't though, or so it seems"

"Actually, the lawyers that I know are a damned sight quicker to take responsibility than the nurses I know."

"And I am sorry, but it is utterly typical of nurses to assume that time on a course = academic achievement. Some of them are too thick to realise that Oxbridge doesn't spoonfeed students anything."

"yep, the nursing degree makes a nurse a jack-of-all-trades and master of none. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, as they say."

"Professionals get angry when they can't do their job properly; sorry, but nurses just whinge."

Oh for Chrissakes, you've actually gone to the trouble of quoting me from, like, 20 pages or so: I don't know whether to be flattered or disturbed by this.

Do you really think if a woman is completely clever and capable of finding the cure for cancer she should become a nurse? I don't and nobody else with any common sense does.

Nursing is necessary and a good job, but it is a waste of talent if somebody is really, really clever. God, why is saying this so controversial; it's obvious

I think a lot of nurses have some kind of an ego problem, to be honest. They have to be considered the 'best' for some reason.

As for the rest, Yes, I have observed that a lot of nurses faff about wanting to be taken 'seriously' yet simultaneously avoid taking the flak for any criticism at all. In other words, they want it both ways.

Also, of course, all your quotes are-literally- out of context. Sure, I remember what I wrote in relation to something else, but nobody else could comment upon them without reading the whole thread.

'Penny drops' Earlier in the thread Wamster, you stated that you had been deemed 'fit to practice'

The 'only' other person that I have known who has used the term 'being deemed as fit to practice' was a nurse who had received an 18 month caution order after being found guilty on a disciplinary charge. After the 18 months, with various supportive mechanisms in place, she was then deemed 'fit to practise' again.
In my experience and opinion, only a nurse who has been subject to such proceedings would use the term 'deemed fit to practice'. Anyone else says 'I qualified in 199X' or 'I gave up nursing after I had the kids' etc.

Think that explains the very bizarre, bitter attitude to every nurse that's ever walked the earth or failed a fill a water jug.

'hides thread to avoid sight of Wamster foaming at the mouth....'

wamster, you really are coming across as an obnoxious, offensive twat.
Thank God you couldn't hack nursing - I'd hate to have come across you.

Look, I don't have to explain myself to you, sassybeast, but I qualified and nursed without incident. It's just the way I speak, OK, I use phrases like 'fit to practise' because that is what Nmc used to use when I nursed.

It all comes out as one long page to me wamster. I've read those comments in and out of context and they still come across as bitter, patronising and patronising.

tbh your whole tone on this issue seems a bit off imo

Wow, I would have hoped that the thread would have settled down, but it just seems to have gotten worse. When Mumsnet has to start deleting posts, you just know that the line has been crossed. It's a shame that we've ended up being dragged into a nurse-bashing debate

unfitmother - we've been trying to tell her that for almost 400 posts. I don't know why she is so bitter, but it must have been dreadful to fill her with such hatred.

I think the nerve has been well and truly hit

Yes it looks like sassybeast was right. Wamster's grudge finally explained.

Either that or Wamster is a troll. A few last points to illustrate how uneducated and unknowledgeable about Nursing she is:-

She says that Nurses will never find a cure for cancer, yet I have a friend who is a nurse and is involved in cancer research at a very high level (Doctoral).

She says I am naive if I think that research changes managers mind. However, much of the specific delivery of healthcare in this country is based on research. The provision of height adjustable beds to reduce the risk of musculoskeletal injury to HCP's is just one example, this provision also increases independence or comfort during moving and handling of the patient aswell. Why does she think NICE exists??????

Finally she asserts that the cause of poor care is down to Nurses, yet Nurses function in multidisciplinary teams so any responsibility at an operational level would surely include Consultants, Doctors, Physios, OT's, Plebotomists, SALTS etc......would it not????

I rest my case!

Right, OK, to explain, may be I am pissed off that the job I once loved is going down the academic route, maybe I am peed off about that.
But, the reason I have not wished to go into detail about when I qualified etc is because I don't wish to give all details on internet. Isn't that reasonable?

ohanotherone, So your friend is a nurse AND has a doctorate as well? If so, she is not 'just' a nurse then, is she? She is far higher than that.

MummyTigger, what the hell do you know about nursing apart from second-hand information?