For being furious at DH telling DSD that my degree isn't a real degree?

[TooFarGone]

So DH is sat down with his DD taking about careers etc. He says to her "these days, you need a job that pays at least £20k a year but at the same time, you don't want to be stressing yourself out with difficult degrees and stuff. You want to enjoy your time at uni. That's why I think nursing would be ideal for you! you get to go to uni, you don't have to do a difficult degree and you get a well paid job at the end of it!".

So DSD says "But isn't a degree in nursing going to be just as difficult?" and he replied "no course not, they call it a degree but its not like a real degree".

I'm furious as I worked bloody hard to get my degree and he knows this. It isn't an "easy option" at all. I had it out with him and he apologised for upsetting me but still maintains that nursing is an easy alternative to doing a "real" degree.

I don't have a degree in nursing but I still qualified and worked as a nurse. Degrees are a newish thing in England so I'm not bullshitting you, MummyTigger.
MummyTigger, You sound like a right whiner when you say that it is 'not the nurses fault'. If the nurses are responsible for ensuring that patients get fed and watered (or at least delegating such tasks to nursing assistants it is their fault). This is why I get annoyed with the nurses who wish to go down the 'we are as good as doctors and other medical professionals line'- they want the status of a profession but are not prepared to accept the flak!
If they really do think there is a problem with staffing levels, then they should take up this issue with their managers and get angry.

See this is exactly why nursing (although a very worthwhile job that people can do in a professional manner) is not a profession. Professionals get angry when they can't do their job properly; sorry, but nurses just whinge.

I feel sorry for them, though, they've got to be perfect for the NMC, get slagged off by patients, trod on by management and now they've got to be academic as well, and not for a great wage. The OP's husband is all wrong! No way would I want my daughter to be a nurse. Not in this day and age.

Hermione, Yes, I accept that I got confused about the mid-Staffordshire story. Sorry about that. Nevertheless, the CQC did put out a report in May of this year where spot checks revealed that 3 in 12 hospitals did not ensure proper feeding of elderly patients. Now this is true.

Nurses only "whinge" because making official complaints gets them struck off - you'd "whinge" too if your job were in jeopardy because you're pointing out basic failings.

They DO take it up with their managers - as I've already stated. My mother has this argument on an almost weekly basis and the stock reply she gets it either:

• "Sorry, we can't afford it"
• "Why? You're managing fine!"
• "Why? You don't need a degree to do what you do!"

If you had read the links I'd posted, you'd know what happens to nurses who complain - they get told to shut up or get out. And given the choice between shutting up and being able to continue caring for people, or being fired and never working as a nurse again, I think I know which one I'd choose.

Incidentally, you've ignored HermionesJumper's post just as I thought you would. You just don't get it do you?

Oops, my mistake, you've acknowledged her post in the most roundabout and vague way possible.

And considering that you "feel sorry" for nurses, and you claim to know just how bad they have it, why are you STILL going on about that bloody glass of water?!

MummyTigger. Eh?
It is pretty clear, is it not? Let's start again.

In May this year (2011), the Care Quality Commission, which is an NHS watchdog, carried out spot checks (unannounced visits) on 12 NHS trusts in England to see how they were performing as regards patient care.

The Commission found that when it came to meeting the nutritional needs of the elderly a quarter of these trusts failed miserably.
I can't really be more clear than that.

This is not about my water anymore, this is about the neglect of a group of elderly people.

So in other words, even when you're wrong you're still right. Uh-huh.

They are "neglected" as you say, because if someone is dying, they can't just stop what they are doing and make sure that they are feeding people. this right here explains it all. From a nurses perspective. But you won't read that, will you? Probably won't read THIS either. You'll just continue on with your opinion, and reading everything that comes out in the papers as obvious fact.

Obviously the spot checks are working then Wamster -what do you think will happen next ?
Those trusts will have to improve their standards. Guess who will implement those changes - yep nurses !
Wamster you strike me as a particular sort of person.One who wants to complain but is not interested in having your complaint resolved .It seems you dont want it resolved because then your argument that nurses are all unprofessional will be bullshit wont it ?

How would it get them struck off to complain that they can't deliver basic care? What they mean is that they don't wish to pee off their managers.

It is true that it may be inadvisable to piss off your manager. I can absolutely see that this is true. Who wants to lose their job? Struck off, though? I don't even think you know what 'struck off' means (so why am I arguing with somebody who knows nothing about nursing itself, I wonder).
The NMC would not strike anybody off for saying that they feel compromised to do their job the best they can.

Unreasonable.....not! I'm a nurse. I qualified in 1990 . My nursing intake was the second to last "non degree" group. I wish I'd waited ten months to start because if I had a pound for every time I was brought up short for NOT having a nursing degree qualification, I would be wealthy.

I spent 5 yes as a staff nurse, 3 years as a junior sister and the remainder of my 24 yr career as a senior sister. Yet, that degree hung over my head something fearful. I was due to start a degree at Leeds whilst working then, lost the funding and support. Eventually, I gave up nursing.

Don't let him talk to/about you in this way. He's demeaning you and his dd.

Nurses did complain /whistleblow at Staffordshire wamster- they filled in piles and piles of paper incident forms -guess where they ended up -yes they were binned .
This is why incident reporting is now online and cant be made to "vanish"

That was in response to your comments about whingeing btw

Well, that is a good thing then, Hermionesjumper.

Wamster - Wasn't it you who reported on the NHS "Whistleblower" who then got struck off by the NMC because she reported the conditions of her own hospital to the papers?! Well, someone on this thread did. And she was given the boot because of "breach of confidentiality" - nope, it was just because they didn't want the world knowing what pricks they are. And for the last time: I do not know NOTHING about nursing - my mother is one, and when I'm not sure of something I can ask her and get all of the information first-hand. Yet another point I've continuously made that you've ignored.

MissKitty - that's horrible. I feel sorry that you had to give up nursing because of that, it's really low down and shitty :( Is there no way you can get back into it? You were a nurse for so long, it's such a shame to not keep it going.

Everyone seems to want to demean nurses. It's just the culture right now. Everyone has to have a scapegoat, and in the NHS it's the nurses that take the flak.

Perhaps then you would like to retract your unfair comments about nurses whingeing then Wamster in view of the fact that Nurses are required by the NMC to report in writing any concerns they have regarding their ability to provide adequate care -directly to their line manager.

You have a point in there in your last sentence, MummyTigger, this is exactly why I think the push for all nurses to have degrees is not going to make things any better for them in terms of them getting flak.
I think one of the aims of getting nursing all-degree is to raise status of profession. If so, it won't work because:

a, The public do not care. A nurse is to care- we're not interested in whether or not she understands various academic texts about social policy. We just want a compassionate person who can read and write and has a good knowledge of anatomy and physiology, drug interactions, and how to operate machines. In other words, we just want a well-trained technician not an academic.

b, Those academically more qualified will still continue to think of themselves as being 'better' academically than a 'mere' nurse. Doctors are not going to bow down to what they (that is how they see it, not me) perceive to be a 'Mickey Mouse' degree.

It's not going to raise the status of the job at all.

Nurses need degrees nowadays because medicine is constantly changing, upgrading and advancing. More and more pieces of equipment are being invented or updated every year. People who don't have degrees are made to feel like incompetent bufoons because they don't have degrees, and then when they DO get degrees they are told that they don't need it in order to do their job. It's a catch-22 of the highest order. They need to be academic because having a good knowledge of anatomy, physiology, drug interaction and machine-operation are all very academic.

And I'm assuming you DON'T want to apologise for the "whinge" comment, like Hermionesjumper suggested?

Wamster have you actually any idea what a nursing degree involves ? I will be mentoring these students -everything they will learn relates directly to evidence based practice and improving patient care.

Another point you seem to be missing is that many of the"mere" nurses currently in practice you are talking about already have degrees - it is very hard to progress in a nursing career without either a degree or at least to be currently studying towards one.
You dont seem to be up to speed with current practice /nursing policy at all.

You seem terribly bitter Wamster Did you really leave or were you "pushed" ?

I'd disagree with the point that you need a degree because of advancements and changes and upgrades the the like. You don't need a degree for that. A degree is just a snapshot of current practice up to that point. It's up to the individual to keep themselves current and updated and you (everybody) don't need a degree for that.

It seems a bit unlikely to me that the nhs would be paying for nurses to get degrees if they didn't need them. If they went back to the old system for student nurses, they could have loads of cheap labour, but they insist that nurses do need degrees. Why would they do that if not necessary?

Too Far youve got a great job, and a degree the poor sap is feeling inadequate, don't be mad, pity him.

Mummy it has always been a profession that has needed a high degree of training, it used to be three years training. I don't think they are any worse or better trained now than then but we just call it degrees. They've always been highly trained over three years for as far as I can go back.

Sounds fair enough, LWITW, so I'm sorry I'll retract that comment. I didn't realise that it was down to the individual to keep up to date with medical advancements - are they not offered any kind of information about updated practices like leaflets, seminars etc? Seems a little unfair... then again most things strike me as unfair when it comes to nursing.

And if it's always required a high level of training, why are we only now having a degree? I would have thought that considering the amount of hard work and on-the-job training that it requires, degrees would have been brought in a lot sooner.

MummyT The nursing qualification used to take three years, most degrees still do. I am fairly sure that now though and I'm not a nurse just have family who are, the remit that the nurses can carry out is a lot broader but I wouldn't pretend to know where.

The example I am thinking of is that years ago a nurse in a doctors surgery could maybe do smears but now you can see them in lieu of a doctor and they can issue prescriptions. I am sure there are loads more.

I can think of a few more examples like that, and I see your point. Nurses have become more like doctors in the last few years, taking on a lot more responsibility. It's just a shame no-one appreciates it.

I think sometimes my mum wishes she had done an "easy" degree such as Fine Art or History, but she loves the work she does even when she's completely burnt out from dealing with rubbish all day.