to think a lot of posters here believe the ONLY reason they are in a well paid is because they worked so much harder than anyone else and good luck and favourable circumstances had NO BEARING AT ALL

[ssd]

GOD there are some amount of smug posters here who seem to believe they are so far above the rest of us lowly workers, they can't stop telling us how hard they have worked, how academic they are etc etc and if you're not, well really you probably claim benefits and expect the system to help you out with your crap paid job

well guess what folks, some of us are in crap paid jobs due to unforeseen life events, not because we spent years at school studying and trying hard so we could earn minimum wage and be lectured to by people who don't have to compromise all their bloody lives

I've not encountered that either.

To be fair I AM academic and have spent the last five years getting a degree that hasn't got me anywhere but working full time for minimum wage to support my redundant DH (he's been made redudant, he himsf isn't) and our two DD's. I've found myself having to go back to college one evening a week to study for a completely unrelated to my degree national diploma.

My choices and unexpected life turns have brought me here but I'm working for a better life. Isn't everyone in some ways?

My god Oblomov, good for you

BTW the name rings a bell, and I can't, for the life of me think where it's from

I agree with floosie. I don't think I've ever looked down on someone job wise. I appreciate those at the top of their game,earning then 300k ++, as much as I do anyone who earns minimum wage. I couldn't give 2 hoots what you do for a living.
My dh is even better at this than I am. He holds his own, with top CEO's and multi millionaires, and yet he treats the cleaner with the same respect, and courtesy. thats why they love him, the secrtarys and the cleaners. will do anyhting for him,and most of them DO, regularly bring him in homemade cakes etc. tis true.

And honestly I never consider myself anything other than a lowly worker - I don't think I am getting above myself or my background.

The only thing, given our time again that would make a difference is that now the Uni fees that people have to pay are terrifying - both DH and I have said given the backgrounds we would never take on a debt of that size - if you come from a family on average wages then that is a hell of a lot of money - I wouldn't have done it for sure. That said, younger generations have a higher tolerance for debt maybe than previous one so perhaps they perceive it differently?

I do think it is about having the balls sometimes - and if people are brought up believing that they need luck to get anywhere then they are fucked before they begin.

At the moment I have a decision to make about one of my DD's - about her special needs education - it might mean her living elsewhere (she is very young and I cannot think about it at the moment without crying my heart out) - I know that this time is one of those big crossroads in my life (and hers) and the decision I make now will change everything for her and the rest of the family..... This has fuck all to do with luck - well bad luck she has these needs I guess, but I have to face it and sort it out for her - backing down and walking away is not an option. This is also a time when I realise that actually we despite having plenty of money, it is still not enough to just pay for her education - I am still going to have to fight and fight the LEA to pay for her very big fees... I could walk away of course and accept the half option they will offer but then what?

Letting our children see us never back down is a very important life lesson.

ssd YANBU
My parents think that the poor deserve to be poor and that they are well off themselves because they are harder working and deserve it and have made thier own luck. I think they have worked hard AND BEEN VERY LUCKY .

This kind of attitude does make you a pretty unattractive personality imo.

Oblamov you did very well to cope then. I thought I had a hard time (sat my final exams with my 5 week old outside waiting for a feed with DH, dissertation wrotten with him on my lap): nothing compared to what you went through. Which is going to come over as patronising now but isn't intended to be I promise.

Please understand that my field is disability; when I talk of bad luck that is what I think of. You were terribly unlucky to get ill- maybe also lucky to survive? As was I when I had eclampsia with DS1 I guess. However some people aren't as lucky enough to 'get away with it' (sort of, I doubt you did: I know I ended up with damned PTSD for a good while for a start).

I guess what I am saying is that many things can be overcome and certainly the harder you work the more likely that is, but some things are insurmountable. And some, like my own situation, take time (I am sure you know it but JIC sorry to bore- 2 kids with ASD, one in diagnosis, one with suspected dyspraxia and ADHD, no of course I won't have any more). I can't see I will never earn again but until the DX phase has finished and the boys settled in schools it's impossible. Getting the boys to the level where I can work is hard work in itself: a real slog. bt necessary if we are to face a chance of getting anywhere. Society doesn't seem to recognise that in any way though- it's assumed I am sat watching JK and eating biscuits. Nobody thinks I might be drawing up business plans or taking exams all ready for when I can start up again.

And of course LeQ people can't always work at the highest levels of income, or even very high at all. That's why success has many different presentations isn't it? Success is measured on personal outcomes (or should be)- for some people keeping a job at all is hard, or managing to organise themselves to be reliable or whatever. Success depends on starting point as much as end point.

Peachy, my dad left school at 14 with zilch, My grandmother believed that , " university wasn't for the likes of us" and my clever, grammar school mother had to leave at 16 to work and her wages helped support her 7 siblings.

They got degrees in their thirties, did night school and ran their own businesses. Now they are retired with money and a beautiful house.

My MIL wasted her private education, refused to work as it was " beneath her" and dragged DH up in horrible poverty. She lives in a shitty unheated flat and moans constantly about how unfair it is that my parents have a good life.

I have no time for people like her.

I don't even want my kids to go to uni. And I don't save to provide for their uni fees. The 9k per year fees, are silly. And why burden themselves with 30-50k of debt. I so wish they had the opportunity that I had had. But I was the last year or so to have free uni, before fees came in.
Ds1 is so bright, SN's, Aspergers, that he could probably DO with going to uni. But I think he will end up in some other geeky area.
These days your better off trianing to be an electrician or a tiler !! Maybe ds2 will do that.

Pinky I don't know the details with your DD but have managed to get 2 great SN placements for my boys so if I can help in any way just holler. And keep going, I know it's shit but biting the bullet and sending DS3 into SN provision was the best thing I ever did for him. Thank god it's local; don't envy you that call.

I'd like ds1 to go to university as despite his AD he hs some real talents that need the sort of specialist education he could only get locally at university (locally matters with ASD, and his talent can be tuned into a job he can do self employed- also important: he designs and makes the most beutiful jewellery); also as the boys have watched DH and I do our degrees they seem to assume it's the way to go. TBH though I can;t imagine ds2 will head there, hopefully he'll follow his heart and do the same HND in Animal care my sister did and then work for conservation charities or as a ranger, he'd be brilliant at it.

£9K wouildn't have put me off though: by the time I actually got there aged 32 I was so desperate to go that I'd still ahve signed up. As would Dh I suspect. I was first in my family to go but sister got her first today and other one is doing her top up credits bit by bit.

I think it's how you respond to luck, bad or good, that defines your life chances.

I left school at 16 to work in a factory, which is what all of my family did and still do, long story short ended up qualifying as a lawyer whilst working full time, now running own business. DH brought up in desperate poverty, in and out of care, literally starving to death at one point.

Our ds1 was born with massive brain damage, I got cancer bla bla blah but neither of us ever considered the possibility of giving up work. DS then died aged 7.

We now own, outright, a large country house and have a lovely lifestyle, v nice holidays etc etc. Anyone saying that we got what we have now because we were lucky is frankly just being insulting. We were lucky that we were both desperate to succeed and lucky that we have an extremely strong marriage, but we've had a fair bit of bad luck as well.

I think it is personality more than anything else. I was very bright and did really well at school and a good university. However, I did lack a lot of confidence, and would certainly never want to make anyone else unhappy or have them dislike me. I also never really thought about wanting to make a lot of money. I think many of those things are down to my background. I now teach, which I love, and we are certainly comfortable. I also have worked very hard in a steady, continuous way. However, no matter how hard I work, I cannot be more successful, whilst staying in the job I love and value. Most of that is just personality.

Christ mumblechum , you deserve everything you have.

CAn I ask what you did for childcare MC? I'd go back ASAP if I could find anyone would take the boys. Family too far away to help.

It's been the one thing kncocked me down along the way. If I can sort out ds1's aggression I can hire a Nanny but until I do (and going opposite way at the moment... but tehn transition and appraoaching teens I guess...) I seem to be destined to wait until DH qualifies and can share care.

Peachy, I went back to work when ds1 was 10 weeks old. I knew he was brain damaged but didn't tell the nursery. They obviously twigged within a few months but were absolutely fantastic, his keyworker, became one of my best friends and she stimulated his little butt off!

Then when he was 2.5 he got a place at a specialist nursery run by Scope (Spastics Society as it was then), starting 2 days a month, then up to full time by the time he was 4. We then moved from Liverpool to Yorks and he went full time to a wonderful special school. Then moved Yorks to Bucks and had been at his new school for 4 months when he died.

For evening babysitting, we'd use either the keyworker I mentioned, or agency nannies who had experience of SN. My parents were fab and took him for a week at a time twice a year so we could get away together. They've always lived hundreds of miles away though, so usually we paid over the odds for specialist nursery staff or nannies.

When he was ill I'd try to take time off if at all possible. There were some times when he was in hospital after major surgery and I'd sleep on the floor with ds2 then drop ds2 off at his nursery and go into work, sometimes to court. DH was always travelling abroad so not really around that much to help out.

when i have a hard time, i do things to help me keep going.

1. i read the poem 'if':

...If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
...Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
...If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

1. i also watch the film 'touching the void' which shows me that (a) if you need to get down a mountain with your leg bone sticking out your leg, you break it into small goals (b) be ruthless on yourself if it gives you the best outcome (c) sometimes things have to get worse before they can get better

1. i also look to heros such as ernest shackleton, people who achieve things you would not imagine possible.

Perhaps LeQ but I can;t answer for them. I think financial success in one valid type of a few equally valid forms.

MC Ilve been asking why there's no SN childcare provision here; seems there was but it got absorbed into the SLD unit and can't take other kids, then ended up as an assessment nursery for PD children. I think had we not moved he'd still be able to use the old childcare we had but he had the reputation of being violent before we needed the care (DH was working nights so we could share IYSWIM up until then). It's always been the big issue; SSD told us if we place him anywhere then if that person gets hurt we are liable, and they will get hurt, after all I do, regularly now.

But it won't be for ever; once dh graduates we will work around each other. One more bloody year! And at least I can finish my dissertation in the meantime (seriously ready to stop school and get money now LOL!)

"Success is measured on personal outcomes (or should be)-"

I would hope that most people will feel they have had a successful and happy life if they have had come through their childhood, good or bad, okay and now have good family relationships, the number of children they wanted who have outlived them, supportive friends and some fun and laughter along the way, and that they die peacefully at an old age. Anything on top of that is a bonus.

Peachy, my ds didn't go to council SN nursery, even back in the early nineties; private nursery, then one run by a charity. It's quadruply difficult for you (if that's a word), because you have four AS lads iirc?

You're doing fantastically well to have come this far after all the crap life has handed to you. You never seem to moan about it. Doing a Masters while juggling 4 children would be tough even if they were all NT. Hang on in there, things will get better!

Absolutely bibbity

I remember someone who had had a really hard life - bullied, abused, treated like rubbish her whole life - once told me that the best revenge is "a life well lived".

For some, simply getting up and making it to the end of the day is success.

Bibbetty, spot on.

I always say if you're lucky you get old, whenever mymum-- anyone is moaning about getting ancient.