to think a lot of posters here believe the ONLY reason they are in a well paid is because they worked so much harder than anyone else and good luck and favourable circumstances had NO BEARING AT ALL

[ssd]

GOD there are some amount of smug posters here who seem to believe they are so far above the rest of us lowly workers, they can't stop telling us how hard they have worked, how academic they are etc etc and if you're not, well really you probably claim benefits and expect the system to help you out with your crap paid job

well guess what folks, some of us are in crap paid jobs due to unforeseen life events, not because we spent years at school studying and trying hard so we could earn minimum wage and be lectured to by people who don't have to compromise all their bloody lives

"why should someone not feel pleased that they have made the best of the opportunities they have had"

No one's suggesting that. It's just about having a little humility and recognising the parts of one's success that are due to externalities.

I agree, lots of people are smug and think they are better than others because they earn more money.

Humility is vastly undervalued quality in Western societies, I think. It's one of the most important things I try to teach to my daughters and how I try to be myself. DD1 had a great school report, but the bit that really made me fill up was that it said she was kind, thoughtful and humble with her classmates.

I got where I am today by a combination of unreasonable competitivness, bolshyness and (mostly) luck. Plus, despite having no advantages early in life I've had the great good luck to be academically well above average, even if I couldn't always afford to capatalise on it. I had to work 3 jobs at once to get myslef thorugh my first degree, worked full time with a 2 year old to get myself through my second and am saving the PhD for when I retire.

It has been my experience that the higher up I've climbed on the career ladder, the more I'm paid and the less hard I need to work. I'm now at the point that there is nobody above me doing what I do so, should I wish, I could get away with doing diddly squat. Because I am cursed with a conscience have got into the habit of working flat out, I restrict my farting about to casting an eye over Mumsnet occasionally. I am, however, constantly amazed at the amount of time wasting that I see on a daily basis. My particular pet hate is meetings which seem to be 60% ego stroking and willy waving and 40% actual work (at best).

I think you've got it in one, slug. I couldn't stand that sort of corporate/managerial culture. I'd much rather work harder and for less money by myself! (still working on it...)

i agree LeQueen - a lot of people arent prepared to do what it takes to be successful then are resentful of those that do do them.
focussing on the things you cannot change is easier than taking responsibility for the things you can change.

allegrageller. I spend much of meeting time cheerfully mumsnetting multitasking, answering emails/drafting reports during the willy waving stuff. I would quit the corporate/managerial culture, but I get paid far more and do sooo much less than when I was a care home assistant or a teacher.

LeQueen, I think I have also changed my stance on the part that luck has played. So, previously, I would get annoyed that I was lucky to be where I am. Being here has made me realised that despite the adversity from which I came, at least I was lucky enough that I had the physical and mental capacity able to be able to turn things around. Nonetheless, while I will acknowledge that luck played a part, I still maintain that I worked hard to get to where I am as I certainly wasn't handed anything on a plate.

part of my luck has been the hard times. those are the times when i learnt the most.

I also agree with LeQueen is that part of being successful is the ability to stand up, stand out, and potentially fall flat on your face.

I have a friend at the moment, and I can't convince her to give up her benefits (which will be taken away soon as her youngest is 5) and do an interesting course which might lead somewhere (even though this is FREE), or get a low-paid job which might lead somewhere else. She admits it is easier to sit where she is (even though on the surface, she had a comfortable life with middle-class parents, plenty of parental support) than take the risk of starting something and then failing. Successful people are lucky people at the point they get that extra opportunity, but they also jump at them, instead of sitting there and being secretly pleased they aren't being tested. I can't see, when someone is being offered a free degree course, how they can fail to jump at that chance, I do really like my friend but I am frustrated at her apathy and her unwillingness to take a risk; you can't be a success if you don't dare risk failure.

Oh god, yes, hard work also (usually) necessary. There are enough people who start with plenty and flush it away. Sir Mark Thatcher, 2nd Baronet, anyone?

I think DH and I have both been lucky - to have helpful supportive parents who have always made it clear they will provide help if needed. But then, partly DH was 'lucky' to have an accident which has left him disabled but he successfully claimed compensation which bought us a house 10 years ago. Getting on the property ladder was probably the biggest single piece of luck.

SGB: I think people are either substantially underpaid or living costs (especially housing) are ridiculously excessive. If housing costs could be properly controlled and renting reformed, I don't think the low paid jobs would cause people to struggle nearly so much.

Agree totally with Le Queen.

We've taken some quite scary risks including setting up companies, buying land and property to build on etc.

Life is very short, you have to make things happen.

Oh, and my SIL has grizzled for the last twenty years about how crap life is being just a secretary and how it's just so unfair that DH earns what he does.

azazello

You made a decision to buy a house with the money, was that luck or a good choice in life ?

I'd say it was a sound decision, the luck was the timing of the events.

I agree in the main with lequeen, but have to say that many people do take risks... And fail. Not an easy thing to do once you have a family dependent on you.

Also there's the opportunity cost of taking a risk - I am willing to bet that your family LeQueen missed out on time with him whilst he worked 90 hour weeks. I'm also willing to bet he found it really hard to ever switch off. And that you didn't make it to family parties or nights out or holidays etc. And that you didn't always know where the next bill was coming from or whether you really could afford a new car or even to road tax your old one?

It makes me mad in my family when the cousin who has never worked gets pitied for not having any money and living on benefits - that is her choice. She has lots of skills (office and beauty therapy skills) which she could use to get a job but chose not to so she could look after her kids instead. She got to go to every sports day, stay home with them when they were sick, listen to what their day was like etc. Whilst I decided to work because I believe that's the right thing to do if you can and I definitely miss out on some of those things, albeit that our life is much more comfortable than hers. That is also my choice. But it certainly doesn't mean that I should give her kids really generous presents or "lend" her money as suggested by some of my family members. I worked hard for that money and gave up the stuff she has in spaces in order to have it.

I agree feckwit, as DH says, all my my risks are calculated.

You don't earn six fig salaries working 9-5, is the bottom line. You have to live and breathe your work and that means that actually, sometimes, family has to take a backseat.
I know very few wives personally who would put up with living with a pretty much workaholic. Many I know insist on hubby being there to do bathtime and then wonder why he never gets promoted and they can't afford less then a ten year old car.

I;ve encountred the chippy posters: they say things like 'all people on HB are in houses they could never afford if they were working'; yet quite often they DID afford the house, or like me have post grad quals they are struggling to use at the moment.

My sister is a peddlar of the 'we worked harder' thing; I don't dispute she slogged, but so did Dh and was made redundant anyway; luckily as he ahd 2 jobs we've just about kept our head above water. I got an A in my degree foinals with a 5 week old baby. The funny thing is that whilst she and BIL do the whole 'it's all ahrd work', he has also just enrolled his son in private admitting that withouta ccess to that education he'd never have got where he has now.

There are of course plenty of nice people earning loads who realise that they are lucky (I don;t just eman a good start or education; in my world not having a disabled child is lucky!). But the ones with the horrid opinions tend to be mouthier IME.

Certainly I marvel at the basic thought differences between DH and I: I had a rough childhood, crappy estate (DAd worked hard mind but estate still crappy) and was written off early by teachers; even with the MA in sight I still find myself looking at very basic minimum wage jobs from instinct, just all I ever thought I could achieve: I look at the things I am qualified to do and think nah, I couldn;- and never put myself forwards. I mentioned this to a Lecturer a few weeks back who asked what I really wanted to do and should I ever have the cash now my PHd is likely. but I have ahd to watch those raised with a feeling of entitlement, or like DH some real survivor spirit to elarn how to do it and still have a long way to go. I know plenty of the kids I grew up with are as bright or more so than me but they never had a chance- kids in my school were expected to go cut ribbons for lingerie in the factory at 16 and be married by 20.

Agree Le Queen, plus DH loves his work. And actually, I get a sense of achievement from doing it by myself ( I do run my own small business too - nothing to do with his).

So many people say to me about our lifestyle but when I point out what it has taken and continues to take to have it, suddenly they aren't so keen!