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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this situation in East Africa could be less serious than it is if there was more information about contraception.

287 replies

JazzieJeff · 08/07/2011 19:37

Ive been thinking this over for some time, and I don't want to appear prejudiced, but I don't think I am being. Because after all, so many people say of people who are struggling to live on low wages/benefits in this country 'why are they continuing to have children?'. So really, my point is the same, but in East Africa, people are bringing children into a world where there is a bloody good chance they will starve or die a horrible death from dirty water.

I dont know whether it's a lack of education, or the spread of the Catholic faith in the developing world. However, I'm not sure if either of these validates people continuing to bring children into such a dire situation. I can honestly say that if I was in East Africa, and that was happening to me and I didn't have access to contraception that I would abstain. I really would. I could not bear to allow any child of mine to suffer. Secondly, if it really is the Catholic faith which prevents so many people from using contraception (as is the case in many developing countries), why isn't there more pressure from governments and charities on the Vatican to start putting money up to start paying for all these children? It's not like they're short of cash; how about using some of those funds they use to put gold leaf on the walls to start putting food in children's mouths. Children, that ultimately, they are responsible for. Because this is getting ridiculous. This has happened twice (that I know of in this country) in my lifetime. Either way, AIBU to think that there needs to be a better solution to birth control in these places, be it contraception or abstinence?

OP posts:
catgirl1976 · 08/07/2011 20:17

And a wash.

Coca · 08/07/2011 20:17

Sorry again OP I really get what you are trying to say but I have actually lived (albeit as a privaliged outsider) in parts of Africa and their is no quick fix. It is not that we are saying these people deserve less than the rest of us, it is simply impossible to change things overnight.

catgirl1976 · 08/07/2011 20:17

Stings up for it too

Coca · 08/07/2011 20:17

there not fricking thier

nomorehotbaths · 08/07/2011 20:20

Jazzie, I work in aid, and you are I'm afraid hugely and depressingly ignorant of the complex issues around poverty.

How dare you sit in luxury with your high and mighty Western attitudes and suggest the poor should abstain? How do you abstain, please, when your culture dictates for example that you must have sex with your husband when and if he pleases, and whether or not he wishes to use contraception?

You know and understand nothing of what these people's lives are like. As other, more sensible posters have said, there are many reasons that people have children in poor countries - lack of contraception, cultural reasons, a wish to have children to provide for you in the future...get OFF your judgemental ignorant high horse.

AmyStake · 08/07/2011 20:20

I have thanks, and I know what I'm talking about.

IF you're lucky enough to be earning £10 a day, you're not going to spend £9 of it on a pack of condoms (IF you are also lucky enough to live near somewhere that sells them) when you need to feed yourself are you?

PumpkinBones · 08/07/2011 20:21

Please let's not play that, Gambia is the limit of my experience when it comes to Africa!

THe problem with all these arguments is that they are predicated on a certain assumption - that "these people" Hmm think in the same way that we do, completely negating their own culture and experiences. You're thinking what you would do in their situation, but you with your background, education, etc wouldn't be in that situation. It's not comparable.

And, in any case, tit's ignorant to assume this work is not happening, there are are projects in most countries in Africa which aim to educate people about contraception and all sorts of related issues, it's just that these are lower profile projects than urgent appeals.

Original poster
JazzieJeff · 08/07/2011 20:21

fs I agree with you, I just think now that charities need to have a re focus when the crisis is over. Because if we don't help these people to make choices (and you know what? Some people will say 'sod that, I'm not using a condom', but a good number will want to stop having children for a while), I guarantee you this will happen again within a decade. This, unlike this thread in a few hours, won't just 'go away'. What would you do if you (by some unlikely tardis - based twist of fate) ended up in this country? Honestly, what would you do? Because even if these women aren't educated, it's an insult to them to imply that some of them haven't wanted to take a break from having children. They're not just baby machines.

tfo what do you do for a living to be so well travelled? Just interested, not picking or anything Smile

OP posts:
PumpkinBones · 08/07/2011 20:21

erroneous tit there Blush

Coca · 08/07/2011 20:22

ok so nomorehotbaths just said what I was thinking but couldn't articulate

Original poster
JazzieJeff · 08/07/2011 20:25

Sigh. nomore no. What I said was, if I was in that situation my choice would be to abstain, because that would be MY CHOICE. Not that of my religion or anyone else. Don't these women have the the right to choose, like me? I NEVER said they should abstain. NEVER. I do think women need to be able to have the choice to what happens to them. And that, if their religion dictates that they must have sex with their husbands, then where are the leaders of the Muslim world taking responsibility for these children that they are dictating, by default, must happen?

OP posts:
Pixieonabroomstick · 08/07/2011 20:25

I think a lot of you are being quite unpleasent.
JJ is (i think please correct me if im wrong)saying yes there are many problems could part of the very complicated solution be to perhaps provide education and contraception to allow these poor people some options they dont have right now ?
She isnt saying its the cure all and then we can go away satisfied we have done all we can.
And i think she may have a point , but its quite a hard thing to do really. Maybe be even impossible the way things are right now with War etc etc. :(

AmyStake · 08/07/2011 20:27

If you were in that situation you would never have had any education, any healthcare, or any experience of the Western world which you have now. Human rights do not exist in Africa.

And you did say that you think they should abstain:

"Either way, AIBU to think that there needs to be a better solution to birth control in these places, be it contraception or abstinence?"

Pixieonabroomstick · 08/07/2011 20:27

And
How dare you sit in luxury with your high and mighty Western attitudes and suggest the poor should abstain? How do you abstain, please, when your culture dictates for example that you must have sex with your husband when and if he pleases, and whether or not he wishes to use contraception?

She said thats what SHE would do. Not what they should do. And maybe some education and help might help change some of the issues and attitudes you have raised here nomorehotbaths ?

Original poster
JazzieJeff · 08/07/2011 20:27

Thanks pixie

OP posts:
Original poster
JazzieJeff · 08/07/2011 20:29

Because Amy abstinence is a form of contraception. And if I was in their shoes, what I would choose, not what they would necessarily choose.

OP posts:
Pixieonabroomstick · 08/07/2011 20:30

No problem. I know what you are getting at, im sure you know there isnt a magic wand to wave that would solve this and that it is complex but i do agree that by educating or putting systems in place to allow an education in the first place it might help a little.
Alongside other aid ofcourse.

Original poster
JazzieJeff · 08/07/2011 20:31

No Amy, they haven't had education. But you don't need an education to know that sex=possible pregnancy, these women aren't stupid, you know.

And it hasn't crossed these women's minds at all that they might like to stop having children, because they can't bear to watch anymore die of malnutrition/disease?

OP posts:
LineRunner · 08/07/2011 20:32

I'm really uncomfortable with the OP's statement "I would abstain". So presumably she feels she would make a better available choice than - her choice of words - "these people".

Coca · 08/07/2011 20:32

I'm going to burst. You cannot put yourself in these women's shoes so what is the point of sayoing what you would do? "ooh if I was in an abusive realtionship I would just walk out, simples" It is admiral that you care OP, but please don't assume that those who point out flaws in your logic don't.

TheFlyingOnion · 08/07/2011 20:32

Jazzie I am despairing at the basic level of understanding of the situation on the ground that our armed forces obviously receives when it goes overseas

FreudianSlipper · 08/07/2011 20:32

but there is always a crises, there is always a war, there are lots of natural disasters. i wish they did have teh resources

the real problem is the share of wealth. its something like 10% of adults accounted for 85% of the world wealth now that is what is so wrong

Original poster
JazzieJeff · 08/07/2011 20:32

pixie no, I know it's not as simple as chucking them some bread and condoms and telling them to crack on. I know that, but it's got to be a start, hasn't it?

OP posts:
TheFlyingOnion · 08/07/2011 20:33

yup, its patronising and borderline racist

hello, British armed forces Sad

begonyabampot · 08/07/2011 20:33

how do you know what you would do if you were in their situation.? it's like saying , i would never have been racist back hundreds of years ago, i would never have hated jews and loved hitler even though I was born and brought up in Germany at that time. YOU DON"T KNOW and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous.