To think this situation in East Africa could be less serious than it is if there was more information about contraception.

[JazzieJeff]

Ive been thinking this over for some time, and I don't want to appear prejudiced, but I don't think I am being. Because after all, so many people say of people who are struggling to live on low wages/benefits in this country 'why are they continuing to have children?'. So really, my point is the same, but in East Africa, people are bringing children into a world where there is a bloody good chance they will starve or die a horrible death from dirty water.

I dont know whether it's a lack of education, or the spread of the Catholic faith in the developing world. However, I'm not sure if either of these validates people continuing to bring children into such a dire situation. I can honestly say that if I was in East Africa, and that was happening to me and I didn't have access to contraception that I would abstain. I really would. I could not bear to allow any child of mine to suffer. Secondly, if it really is the Catholic faith which prevents so many people from using contraception (as is the case in many developing countries), why isn't there more pressure from governments and charities on the Vatican to start putting money up to start paying for all these children? It's not like they're short of cash; how about using some of those funds they use to put gold leaf on the walls to start putting food in children's mouths. Children, that ultimately, they are responsible for. Because this is getting ridiculous. This has happened twice (that I know of in this country) in my lifetime. Either way, AIBU to think that there needs to be a better solution to birth control in these places, be it contraception or abstinence?

Actually tfo if you read further up, I have been to Djibouti. Please tell me how I am ill informed. Because these people need more than basic aid to get themselves out of this and to stop it happening again.

Another example, a friend of ours back in Africa paid a VET to pull out a rotten tooth with a pair of pliers because the dentist wanted a ridiculous amount of money, by our standards. No anaesthetic, no nothing.

before they can have an informed choice what they desperately need is safe water, food, medicine for life threatening illnesses, a safe home, they need to be safe from war. of course all deserve this, education does follow

i do not think anyone here is suggesting that these women do not deserve to have contraception but sadly there are far more pressing issues

Surely the more you can educate, the better? What about these people's rights?

When we went to Djibouti, so many children wanted to become doctors, nurses, teachers etc to help their own. Not just to go abroad. Yes, some do. But not all. These people want to help themselves. I just feel like the west keeps coming in on the wrong end of the deal and providing basics to keep them alive, when they need more. It's keeping them poor.

interesting that you have been to Djibouti and yet have no idea of the difference in culture and education between African women and you. Were you on a day trip from Sharm El Sheik?

Yes, people do need more than basic aid. Aid does not work. Saying that you would "abstain" if you were "in their situation" is ridiculous...

You think the solution to the problems in East Africa which include, civil war, drought, famine, HIV, TB, Malaria, Cholera, Systematic rape, Aids stigmatisation, high infant mortality, short life expectancies and corruption will be solved by allowing people the "right" to contraception?

And if you lived somewhere with all those problems you would think - Well the Oxfam lot haven't brought me round my johnnies this month. I think I will abstain.

I think it may be a tad more complicated. Only a tad though so you've nearly cracked it.

Sorry OP, I think you mean well but you are being naive. Aid agencies etc can't just waltz in and dictate to these governments where they want aid to go.

fs yes, the last thing I am saying is 'no, sod it, replace rice with condoms'. No. What I am saying is, once the immediate crisis is over, we can just up and leave these people to it. We've done it before, and it's happened again. Same place, same families suffering. Why aren't we really helping them to live?

I want to ask this in purely biological terms (ie not to think of race, education, aid or anything that people accuse each other of prejudice over).

If a famine runs its course, won't women's fertility decline to zero during the famine and then only return when nature allows people to become well nourished again, therefore re-populating the country to replace those that have died?

@ catgirl

That would make a lovely charity single

"Really helping them to live"

Needs a big power ballad chorus. I'd buy it

Jazzie read "The White Mans Burden" regarding aid in Africa.

Very illuminating and a tad more helpful than posting to a bunch of pissed up mummies on MN (no offence to anyone intended )

That Mandy is called a Malthusian Trap. I think

Oooh Bono would blatantly be lead vocals

the knob

No tfo I am in the armed forces and we stopped off to deliver supplies, but thanks for asking. Do you know where Djibouti is? Have you been?

And no, I don't think it'll solve the situation, but I think it'd help.

Or actually, no, sod it. Let's go in, dump a load of water and rice on them to make ourselves feel better and then just bugger off back to nice existence. I suppose all those people who don't feel that these women have a right to contraception like we do also are the kind of people who believe 'charity starts at home'.

I've just looked online, in a private hospital a doctor in South Africa can hope to earn about R30-40K a year. That's £3 to £4K. For a fully qualified doctor. In one of the most expensive countries in the world.

This is why there are no hospitals/clinics in Africa. As I said, would you earn £4k a year there or £100k here?

I'm not even drunk. :(

They don't have a right to contraception because there is none to have!

haha yes I do, and yes i have, thanks

We can play "who is the most well travelled" if you like

Sorry JJ

I do think it is admirable that you have rasied the issue and education and contraception are important. There are a lot of problems in terms of different cultures, war and corruption etc that make it sadly far more complex and none of us on here have the answers.

And visiting Djibouti was what made me want to look into this subject in more depth. Because heartbreaking just doesn't cut it.

If you want to take the piss, then fine. But I guarantee you that most of you have never seen this carnage first hand.

Bono was my first choice prize twat

we are look at the work live aid has done, but often attention has to go elsewhere as so many people in this world are suffering from lack of the most basic needs of clean water, food, shelter and medicine

catgirl no worries, I'm not saying contraception is THE answer. Because it's clearly not. Clearly. But it's got to be a start, it's got to start women thinking about their rights, their bodies. And that has to be a step in the right direction.

Backing vocals: that scruffy one, whatisname? Daughter called Peaches

oh yeah, Bob Geldof. He looks like he needs the money...