I don't think I am but am prepared to be told I am if the MN Jury thinks so

[fuckmepinkandCALLmegoran]

DD1 is 12, she is at her dad's this weekend, and has gone to her grandmother as they have a farm and it is silage time.

She has just sent me a picture of herself in overalls DRIVING A TRACTOR WITH A TRAILER ON IT

I have texted her and she is delighted to be allowed to cart the "near home" fields where she doesn't have to go on the road.

I am most displeased about this. I think it's dangerous and irresponsible.

But past conversations with ex when DS was this age did not go well, as he cannot see the problem nor can his family. They all did it at that age.

So, oh MN July, AIBU to think she's too young, it's too much responsibility and far too dangerous?

I think it is slightly different on this thread - the issue about a 12 year old driving a tractor.

The way I see it is that farms operate like a family business really whereby the whole family get involved, including the children. The senior workers train up the children to operate the machinary, and the those that are deemed competent are allowed to get on with it.

I agree that we need laws and protocols to set guidelines, but guidelines need also to be flexible and take into account the the matuity and physical abilities of the child. If you'd prefer to wait a year until your daugher is bang on 13 years old, and officially within the guidlines, then you rein her in until that time.- it's not far away.

Don't let this family undermine you.

They would say (voice of experience) "Don't listen to your mum she doesn't know anything. WE know you're old enough and sensible and you'll be fine after all your Dad and Uncles X and Y did it. She's just being paranoid and stupid"

Contact the HSE. Dont name names to start with but find out what (if anything) they would do in this circumstance. Quite possibly they would send someone out to investigate. This will waste a huge amount of ex inlaws' time. HSE WILL also find something. This will result in a small fine plus more time wasted, forms to be filled etc etc.

Repeat weekly from now until, say, the end of harvest?

Or, tell the in-laws to stop putting your DD on a tractor.

You're a townie? Use bureaucracy to best effect!

Animation - Ok so take your argument and apply it to something else. Would it be OK to put her in charge of a car if I deem her competent? Hand her the keys and let her carry on? Because the LAW says 14 for tractor, 17 for car, and if the law is the law in one scenario, then it applies in the other just the same surely?

Unless you're saying that the law doesn't apply to farmers?

Gnome - we split hols 50/50 so he only has her for a few weeks.

I will ring HSE in the morning and see what they would do/say in the situation.

Is there other work that she could do on the farm that's more appropriate for her? Have to admit that I'm no expert, but there must be something else she can do to help during the busy period?

Can you show your DD the website other posters have linked to, explaining the risks and laws around agricultural work, and encourage her to take the decision for herself? I suspect she genuinely doesn't know that she shouldn't be doing it, given how you've described your ex-ILs; I doubt she's had much in the way of training and safety guidelines. Do you think she would respond to an approach of "I want to discuss this with you because it's important that you understand how to risk-assess the work you do"?

She's not even old enough to do a paper round in the UK FGS!

No it would NOT be Ok to put her in charge of a car ON ROADS - most definately.

Ok Animation, so what's the difference? The law says it's illegal to do either, so ?

I am going to talk to her - she did the milking yesterday and did the calves and lifted all the dead chickens out of the chicken house but what they need help with most at this time of year is silage trailering.

FMP - so what! Dob them in anyway! Farms are awash with crap working practices. There will be loads of minor infringements requiring mountains of paperwork and various modest fines.

Your power in this situation is the power of bureaucracy.

Let the ex inlaws know that you will use it. They want to bully you with shouting. You can bully them with paperwork! The plus side is that you dont actually need to be there!

You speak to farms It's genuinely not that unusual for 12 year olds to be driving tractors - on their OWN land!

Animation- family businesses don't get free rein to ignore the law! What if the family business was cannabis farming- would they be free to ignore the laws surrounding that? There is a difference between guidelines and the law; if I've understood earlier links correctly, the law in OPs country deems 14 to be the youngest age for being on a tractor AT ALL.

Just because lots of people have historically done things a particular way doesn't make them safe or right. Yes, perhaps for hundreds of years children of all ages have had to help on farms. They didn't have fuck-off big tractors and trailers in the 1800s though.

So that makes it OK to break the law then?

FWIW it's not just a tractor, it's a tractor and trailer.

Gnome - I'm going to ring HSE in the morning and see what they say

The law says children under a certain size and weight have to be put in car seats.

I deem my 3 year old next door neighbours child to be sensible and capable.

Therefore I will transport her next week in my car with no car seat and when the police tell me I am acting illegally I will tell them it's my judgement call.

(not really)

Like I said before if you're concerned - have your dd wait a year.

I personally don't think it's a big deal - because I have first hand experience of how farms operate.

I don't understand the attitude that laws are optional

Marys - true

Animation- I've lived in places where it's genuinely not that unusual for 12-year-olds to steal a car, joyride around for a while and then torch the car. That's also illegal. It's quite possibly also family tradition in some instances. Doesn't make it right.

I know that OP's ex-in-laws are running a legitimate business, not trying to deliberately carry out criminal acts. But they can't ignore the law, these safety laws are there to protect people. What if the family business was roofing, or scaffolding, or car crushing, or recycling? Could they ignore they safety laws there too, and send the 12yo up on a roof with no training or safety gear?

Animation - it used to be normal to see people driving without seatbelts on. Smoking used to be prescribed for asthma. Children used to be allowed to float free in cars rather than sit in car seats. People used to ride motorbikes without helmets.

The difference is that we know better now.

For some reason farms seem to be stuck in a sort of industrial age where it's okay to let children risk life and limb using heavy machinery. Just because everyone is doing it doesnt make it right. It just means that there are an awful lot of idiots out there.

(The thread has moved on a bit since the post I just posted a response to!)

Maryz- surely that's the point though- the law about not allowing children to do particular kinds of dangerous work is to try to prevent accidents, not to allow someone in authority to say "told you so" when a child is crushed to death under a tractor.

It used to be acceptable fpr 12 year old's to drive tractors. Just like it used to be acceptable to drink and drive. It's not any more, but people still think they can ignore the law.
I doubt the inlaws are even aware of the law, or that it applies to them...

OP tell your dd that you appreciate how exciting the tractor must be, biut you are concerned because you have discovered it's against the guidelines and want her to be aware because you can't encourage her to do something that is against the law. Tell her once she is 14 you will be happy for her to drive the tractor but in the mean time you'd rather she helped out in other ways that she is legally allowed to help.
Show her the leaflet and what it says. Ask her if she had teh proper training that is required and had someone supervise her (as the guide says is required for 14-16 year olds). And if she says no then you can say that you are worried because these rules are important and have come aout because of the many accidents that happen on farms, and that while it used to be ok when dad was her age, it's not now. And if dad tells her otherwise then it's because he hasn't read the guidelines properly perhaps and you wouldn't want him risking his insurance etc...

Be honest and tell her that you and her dad have a different opinion on this, but that you think that as it's against the law she should agree to wait another year and a bit until she is 14.
If they were paying both dd's for their help anyway they can afford to fork out for a proper worker. Or her dad can give up his cricket and help...