I don't think I am but am prepared to be told I am if the MN Jury thinks so

[fuckmepinkandCALLmegoran]

DD1 is 12, she is at her dad's this weekend, and has gone to her grandmother as they have a farm and it is silage time.

She has just sent me a picture of herself in overalls DRIVING A TRACTOR WITH A TRAILER ON IT

I have texted her and she is delighted to be allowed to cart the "near home" fields where she doesn't have to go on the road.

I am most displeased about this. I think it's dangerous and irresponsible.

But past conversations with ex when DS was this age did not go well, as he cannot see the problem nor can his family. They all did it at that age.

So, oh MN July, AIBU to think she's too young, it's too much responsibility and far too dangerous?

Illegal it may be, but it is the culture of farming and it wont change.
Op-I hope you manage to sort something out with your ex and dd.

So if I decide it's my culture to drive a car with no seatbelt on, that's OK?

I wont' be able to sort anything I really am just going to have to suck it up, doesn't mean I like it though

I agree that yanbu. Given that your dd doesn't live on the farm, she won't be as experienced at driving tractors as those who do, yet it's likely thAt your bil won't appreciate that. If you can't stop it, any compromises you could make, eg only flat fields/supervision present etc?

Omigawd, the OP isn't in the UK. Those figures don't apply in this instance.

OP-you do have proof- you have the photo.

And I think I read further upthread that you have a younger DD? So even if DD1 only drives the tractor for a few more weeks, you have years of this argument to come with younger DD.

OP - you arent simply sucking it up. You are going to explore the options with HSE. You are going to educate your DCs.

The culture of farming IS changing. Your DCs can be part of that change. The change comes about when individuals challenge the accepted orthodoxy. Be proud of your challenge!

However, data from the HSA, which is the authority for the OP's country, is interesting, especially these sentences:

"The Agriculture sector has a very high risk profile and consistently has the highest fatality rate of any sector."

www.hsa.ie/eng/Your_Industry/Agriculture/

and
"2010 saw an increase in workplace deaths from their all-time low of 43 in 2009 to 48 in 2010. 60% of these deaths occurred in the farming, logging and fishing sectors, sectors that account for about 6% of the working population."

www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Corporate/Annual_Report_2010.html

Omigawd- if you are a statistician then I accept your authority on this, but I don't think you can do a direct comparison like that. Don't you need to consider criteria like how many hours are spent on roads compared to farms? Your figure for the farming population might include members of farming families who don't ever enter the working part of the farm, so are unlikely to feature in accident reports (such as babes in arms/ very elderly)- but these would be included in road casualty stats.

Sorry, that was to Omigawd, not you Gnome!

FMP- as Gnome says, you don't have to suck it up. And neither do your children.

If your DD is genuinely interested in the driving aspect, could you negotiate with her that , in return for her not driving the tractor until she is allowed to and is trained, you could arrange one of those First Driving experiences with a fully qualified and in-control instructor?

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the rather grim public information film 'Apaches', which was all about the dangers children could face on farms: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apaches_%28public_information_film%29

For all those who reckon that children in the 70's were super tough and it never did them any harm, the film ends with a list of about 30 children, all of whom died on farms in one year*. 30! That's a whole classful of children.

OP YANBU.

@Inertia I'm no statistician, but I do have a bee in my bonnet about people - especially teh cotton wool types - getting the relative risk of things right :)

I read in that linked piece that Irish agricultural deaths/1000 are about 2x UK ratios, but then 0-14 child road mortality is c 60% higher too, so i suspect my calculations still hold good.

By the way, the most "at risk" kids on farms are 0-4 years olds (50%+ depending on whose stats you look at), with 10-14 year olds mainly injuring themselves on quads and motorcycles (80% +)...the poor old tractor hardly gets a look in.

And don't tell the OP, if she thinks tractors are bad - I learned to shoot on a farm at about 14.... :o

Gnome - Thanks for linking that HSE doc. Very grim reading though.

Re the Apache thing...that was blatant scaremongering, and as to the 30 kids killed in 1 year, well the HSE records the deaths in the last 10 years of kids up to 16 has been 31, up to 18 has been 43.

Btw, reading the OP's latest posts I suspect this isn't really a farm safety thing, this is more a bitter scrap with ExH about control, and the poor kids are being used as pawns.

The statistics used in Apaches were from the 1970's, before much of the H&S legislation had come in and all those named were real children.

Also, I think what you are saying about the OP is very unkind. She sounds very much like she wants her daughter to enjoy time with her dad, but she's worried about her dd's safety and rightly so.

If it's not an enclosed cab I would expect a helmet. I don't understand the reaction on the first page, certainly.

I don't understand what seems to be the continued reaction of some people either, considering the obsession with car seats until they are almost married off.

Omigawd - how dare you suggest this is a bitter scrap about my ex and control. This is nothing of the sort. I have made it very clear throughout the ex and I had the same "scrap" when we were married, if you read the thread you will see that. My DS is 20 and I felt the same 8 years ago when it was him, and I was still married at that point. I would like you to withdraw that remark as it is uncalled for and offensive and actually has me in tears.

Surely if I was being controlling of the situation, then I would have banned her from going there long ago?

And for the record I don't understand how anyone thinks it is OK to blatantly disregard the actual black letter law on this. The law says it's not allowed, why are farmers different to everyone else and don't have to obey the law?

As to shooting on a farm omigawd - your point is? DS is proficient with a shotgun, I am sure if DD shows an interest she will be taught to shoot as well.

I sympathise. It must be very worrying.

Gooseberry - it is.

I am completely flabbergasted that anybody could think that I was being controlling. I haven't gone there and demanded she be returned. I've had words with him about not letting her do it because it's illegal and not safe - surely as her mother it's my right to do that?

FWIW the reason for saying take it to court for a determination is because he is demanding my DP's mobile number, the addresses and dates of everywhere we intend to take the kids on these 2 weeks of holidays, and to be able to get in contact with them and me "immediately at any point"

I happen to think that's controlling much more than me saying I don't like DD driving on a tractor illegally.

And actually Gooseberry you make a very good point. How many of the people who are going "don't worry about the risks or the fact it's illegal she's having a good time" would transport their children in a car with no car seats?

As far as I can see, it's the same thing. The Government have made a decision for the safety of children that it is not permitted to take kids in cars without car seats.

The Government have made a decision that for the safety of children they cannot be driving a tractor under the age of 14.

Why must one law be obeyed to the point of phoning the police if you see unrestrained children (as on another thread) but the other law can be completely disregarded and anyone who suggests that it should be adhered to is "controlling" and a member of the cotton wool brigade?

Fuckmepink

You do seem very intense though - is it just about the tractor driving?

Are you JUST as annoyed about your x playing cricket all weekend and not being with your dd?

If you don't want her driving the tractor - tell her that she's NOT to. Simple as that. Why are you wanting to fight these people?

Are you going abroad or staying in Ireland?

You simply say 'We will be on holiday', it's unlikely we'll have all our phones with us at all times but I will be taking mine with me. I will check it when we get back to the hotel as it is most likely to be left in the safe. As always, you can call my number if you need too and I will arrange for the dc to call you half way through the holiday too (or on xyz day if you feel you can be specific)...

Oh and give him the address of the place you are staying at if it makes him happy. Unless you think he's going to phone and cancel your booking I think that's ok for him to ask...

Amination - I intend to tell her not to drive the tractor and have the safey conversation as soon as she gets here (9am this morning)

No I am not AS annoyed about him not having time with them on his access weekend, but I am slightly irritated. The kids don't like being dumped at their grannys' on a Friday night and collected on a Sunday but I have told them to take it up with him not me.

I feel attacked on this thread in a situation where all I asked was aibu to think it's unsafe and dangerous - I never intended to go there and stop her "fun" or be "controlling"

And I know from experience that if I tell her not to drive the tractor then she will be encouraged to lie to me, so it's pointless for me even to try to talk to her, to an extent, and I feel frustrated and like my wishes for my daughter are not being respected. And that is not a new thing and I suck up all kinds of things that people in marriages with partners and in-laws who treat them with respect don't have to do. And it is frustrating.

But I do not understand the posters who think that is OK to break the law - surely the law is the law? Especially when I think of the car seat analogy - why is it different that she's driving a tractor?

Gilly - I gave him the address of where we are staying, I told him he could contact me on my mobile or DD on hers at any time and if we didn't have the phones on us we would call him back asap. He wants DP's mobile, he wants the phone number of where we are staying, he wants to know where we are going and when during the holiday, and he wants to be able to contact the kids and me at any point immediately.

"But I do not understand the posters who think that is OK to break the law - surely the law is the law? Especially when I think of the car seat analogy - why is it different that she's driving a tractor?"

Well, I am one of those posters who doesn't think driving a tractor is a big deal at 12. It seems you want to continue to fight and shame us too.

As I 've said, to me it's nothing like driving a car on roads with other cars - it's not as dangerous. It's not a case of WANTING to break the law. This is how familiy farms need to operate to make a living - like it or not.

I don't know if you have the full weight of the law on your side - but if you have then you go campaign about it if you need to.

You come across quite angry with this family and with your XH - I find it hard to believe it's just about the tractor. And I don't understand why you can't get through to your dd to NOT drive the bloody thing! She must see how upset you are?