To Be pissed off hubby just called me a housewife....

[CoffeeDog]

SO yes i dont have a 'paid' job but we have 3 kids (5) and (twins 2) DH is rarther annoyed to find his favorite shirt is not ironed for his work piss up tonight and had a rant when i suguested he iron it himself.... including that ironing is part of my 'duties' as a housewife. TBH he's bloody lucky it was washed!!!

AIBU to suguest the various things he can do with said Iron?

(Do you have a cleaner too ?)

No. No cleaner.

OP, do you spend his money? If so, you can't compare his situation to when he was single as he wasn't sharing his salary with you then.

There weren't any kids to be looked after either though.

The fact is that children need to be both financially supported and physically looked after, and just because one person in the partnership stays home to look after the DC, while the other one WOH to financially support them, it doesn't make one thing more important than the other or render the WOH parent incapable of doing anything for themselves once they are home.

I think it's fair for a SAHP to do more around the house than the WOHP, solely on the grounds that they are physically present in the house, so able to do so. It doesn't absolve the WOHP from all responsibility for housework.

My DH works very long hours, so I will often be doing housework etc in the evenings. But, if he came home and sat on his arse in front of the telly at 5.30 every night and expected me to carry on doing all the necessary tasks that crop up in the evening (cooking dinner and washing up, bathing the DC etc), there would be trouble.

Both partners should pull their weight, even if they don't do exactly the same things in the household.

Hit the nail squarely on the head, there karma.

Looking after kids isn't a full time job though. I think it's fair for the SAHP to do most of the normal housework while the WOHP is at work.

I wouldn't mind ironing shirts - in fact I did so before we had kids and was working full time, and I did so when I was on maternity leave. But after going back to work and working four days a week I asked DH to do his own shirts, and also put his own washing away (apart from socks and pants which can just be put into a drawer) because there was obviously more washing now being 3 of us, and he was fine about it. I'm sure he would like his shirts ironed, but he saw it as a nice thing I did rather than something it was "my job" to do. Also I'd probably be more likely to iron his shirts if he better organised his wardrobe - I was sick of putting a beautifully ironed shirt into an overcrowded wardrobe where it would look unironed by the time it was worn...

Now there are four of us, I work 4 days still, have a tumble dryer and hardly do any ironing if I can get away with it...

I meant to say I wouldn't mind being called a housewife if I was a stay at home mum not doing any paid or voluntary work.

I have only read the first page but you ARE a housewife, so YABU.

What part of looking after kids isn't a full time job? It starts around 6.30 and finishes around 7.30. That's a 13 hour day with no lunch break and the time you stick them infront of the telly is for cooking. Perhaps you people who think it is not a full time job have kids in full time education or nannies or kids who will play endlessly on their own without fighting or wanting attention. I'm not moaning. I enjoy it. But it is physically harder than any job I've ever done. It's emotionally harder. The only thing it isn't is mentally draining!

I don't sit down and play with my children, never have. I think being able to play by themselves or with each other is hugely important.

The thought of sitting down and playing happy street for hours a day brings me out in hives and I would argue that it's not entirely a great way to do things.

Mine do play endlessly on their own because it's what they are used to . I'm always here with them pootling and mumsnetting doing housework etc.

If you are devoting your attention for 13 hours a day to your children, that's your choice but it's not necessary. I agree with Indigojohn that kids should be able to play on their own, not endlessly but they certainly shouldn't need your devoted attention for 13 hours.

It certainly has become easier to do more 'housework' as DS has gotten older (only 18 months ) but I still am only able to do as much as he'll 'let' me, in that he can be very, very, very demanding some days, hanging on my leg screaming, but on other days (such as today) he is happy to entertain himself/watch CBeebies while I tidy the kitchen/sort washing/change the beds or try to swallow poisonous plant life poodle in the garden while I peg the washing out/plant some beans/cut some salad/dig potatoes.

The thing is, I see my job as caring for, teaching and raising him and anything else I get done is an added bonus.Hoovering btw is the easiest job on the planet as he adores his toy Hoover and will happily follow me around the house with it.

Incidentally, the house was never very tidy when I worked full time either.

Depends on the age of the child. When he had chidlren of a baby, 1 and 3 year old I would defy anyone looking after that lot to do much more than ensure they were kept safe and fed etc. Now they are 26/24/22 those three it's lovely and of course it's dead easy.

Xenia I think the problem is that you see the situation from a very different perspective than many other posters. Your posts are often inflammatory and quite insulting to SAHMs, but if you see it from the perspective of someone with adult children, I can see that (although tactless) they do have a grain of truth in them.

However, as you yourself said, babies and young toddlers are full-time work and expecting someone caring for them to also keep the house spick 'n span is ridiculous, never mind brandish a dangerous iron during the day, and I for one am certainly not going to spend my evenings ironing his shirts while he sits on his arse.

I think Xenia is sympathising with the OP who has a 5 yr old and 2 yr old twins (ie. young children). Xenia also has some younger children as well as the older ones, though I forget their ages. It's some of the other posters who claim that's not a full time job and the OP should be ironing his shirts whilst he 'provides' which are the issue.

OP, as a Mum of 2 yr old twins (who have been away for 2 delicious days at my Mum's while we have our kitchen knocked down), I can safely say that they alone are MORE than a full time job, along with the shopping, cooking, washing, cleaning (which is basically keeping the family clean and fed). Things such as ironing or tidying are a luxury, which your dh needs to do if he wants it.

My twins are 12. It was certainly a lot easier with twins and 3 teeangers than when we had a baby, 1 and 3 year old. Whether you work full time (as we both did) or stay at home when you're with the 3 under 5s it is hard to do much else. The baby (or babies if you're breastfeeding twins as I did_) probably wants to be attached to your breast 24.7 if it had its way, the toddler wants to do its best to thwart whatever you're doing and the 3 or 4 year old is trying to get some deserved attention.

However when children are older and even the youngest in a morning pre school or whater these is more time and some people whether with or without chidlren are pretty solvenly and sit around all day whether they are workers or not and some want everything just right. the secret is to marry someone who is similar to you but also accept that when children are very small it's a matter of survival each day (and I recommend the working full time route to all women when they have under 5s as it's much much easier and better paid)

IndigoJohn, clearly for you and your circs, looking after your children isn't a FT job. Good for you. But I have a 3 yo and a 6mo and I do find it pretty much fulltime at the moment. DS2 cosleeps with us too, and clings to me during the day a lot, so I really don't have that many minutes apart from him in a 24 hour day. At the moment, I'm sitting with him having gone to sleep on my lap after a feed, and DS2 is watching Cbeebies for some 'quiet time' before we all go out to his friend's house. So yes, I'm having a break right now, but tbh I wish DS2 would go down for naps so I could get more done during the day.

I'm sure you're not a shit mum. I know damn well I'm a shit do-er of housework, but frankly, that was never high up on my list of things to master and there'll be time enough to hoover under the beds every day when both DC are in school. Or perhaps I'll just get a job, and a cleaner.

"I recommend the working full time route to all women when they have under 5s as it's much much easier and better paid."

Is it really easier though Xenia?

I earn well though not nearly as well as DH (we are both in the City). We are having DCs soon. Once that happens we will be faced with the choice you so often describe: one of us to SAH or go part time, or both to continue full time.

If one of us SAH or goes part time, it will be me, due to (1) earning power and (2) inclination.

I could stay doing full time work. We would be much better off financially, especially as I get more senior, and I would be more financially secure should DH and I ever split. But I think it would be much, much harder work. I would be doing 12 hour days, DH even more, and we would then be coming home to deal with whatever the nanny/cleaner had not done (which would mean all home admin, food shopping, cooking, children waking in the night, any thing that requires parents rather than nanny, etc). And we would see very little of our DCs.

Seriously, I can understand why staying in work makes sense financially in the long term (at least for those women with high earning potential) but as for it being easier? No way.

minipie. With 1 dc it is probably not easier to work full time, because you'll still have the housework etc. and tbh one is too bad to handle. With 3 young dc (not in full time school) I think it probably is harder being at home than working f/t, not that I've tried the working route. But I have friends who've gone back to work as a break! I think you'd probably get more time to yourself depending on how demanding your job is, and be financially able to pay for cleaners/ ironers/ nannies who will cook etc.

And not to be patronising, but if you don't have dc yet, you don't realise just how 24-7 they are! Believe me, there is no boss as demanding as a 2-3 year old! Work can be a much needed breathing space for many people if you enjoy your job. Dh and I were only commenting at the weekend when we were childless for 2 hours, how amazing it felt. I have had only 1 kid since Sunday night and it's been utter bliss (he is 5 though so at school full time).

I don't see how it is so hard to iron a few shirts when you are a SAHM. I would not expect to come home and do 50% of the housework if I had a stay at home partner. I think women who stay at home either slow down and get used to doing less so find it harder, or the types who choose to stay at home could not cope with much anyway and that is why they are at home. Whenever I have been on mat leave I also take care of whatever needs to be taken care of in the house (I have 4 children) and I have not found it a struggle.

This was a shirt for a night out, right? Hardly part of the core housework. Would it have killed him to iron one shirt? How many nights out does he get in said shirt, OP, compared to yours?

I would not expect to come home and do 50% of the housework if I had a stay at home partner.

Actually I agree with this. And it was the case when I was a SAHM (and of course I expected the same treatment when DH was a SAHP for a year - helped him see what work was really involved and is something I'd recommend to any family, this swap in childcare duties, if it can be financially sustained).

I think women who stay at home either slow down and get used to doing less so find it harder, or the types who choose to stay at home could not cope with much anyway and that is why they are at home.

Be prepare to be flamed for that one.

But I think it all depends so much on someone's circumstances - it isn't as simple as "SAHMs are lazier/less stamina" which is what you're implying.

I will admit in a small that when I was a SAHM I found it immensely less stressful than going to work though No deadlines, flexibility to have a break without being watched over, a lack of TOTAL regulation over timing e.g. if I decided I was too tired to take them to a playcentre that day,I could cancel and re-arrange - can't do that at work. I loved having no one to answer to every half hour, no regimented schedule - hell I didn't wear a watch most days! Can't get away with that at work.

I think that's something a lot of SAHMs don't admit to - yes it can be hard, and unrewarding, and other stuff - but it can also be fulfilling, easier than work, and better paid! (If you're making less money than you're bringing in due to wanting to keep your foot in the door.)

Whenever I have been on mat leave I also take care of whatever needs to be taken care of in the house (I have 4 children) and I have not found it a struggle.

Again this depends on your support network, how close in age the children are, and, dare I say it, your natural ability to cope? Not everyone is the same.

So - to summarise - I fear the truthful nuggets in your post will get lost in the MN chatter during your flaming for the other comments!

I thought I should post that I do agree you have some valid points though.

p.s. I think the worst of all worlds is working part time, personally.

Because then you still have the looming boss, deadlines, clients, personal training, stress, commuting, work clothes buying, pressure to maintain or exceed employee goals, feeling like you're never giving it 100%, getting overlooked, snide comments from colleagues about not being commited... and then you do the same at home - you never get the wonderfully relaxed feeling of letting your rearing days be determined by your children's mood or the weather - it has to be forced into your Monday and Tuesday off, say, and you feel guilty because you're not really a fulltime parent, and still don't have the benefit of being able to see all the school plays or go with the other mums for coffee any day.

And I say that as someone who has also done the part timer thing, but only for 18 months.

I genuinely think part timers have the worst of both worlds, barely any of the advantages of working fulltime, and only a glimpse of the benefits that fulltime mums get.

I guess I'm sort of agreeing with Xenia there? From what I can tell anyway.