AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as....

[seeker]

.....not a feminist?

SinicalSal, that's a fair point of course it is. I don't find ALL Feminists the same, but I am happy with my lower case slot.

Sometimes I do things 'as a woman', sometimes as an individual, sometimes as a human being.

I guess for me its the same as it is for religion or any organised school of thought, I don't declare myself as Christian, because there's much of it I do not believe or hold true, there's much of it that I completely agree with but not enough to give that title to myself... not sure if that makes sense?

For me, I am feminist but not 'a' Feminist.

I don't think there's total equality yet, but things are a dam site more equal than they used to be. It's a work in progress, and unfortunately not everyones attitudes will change in one or two generations.

Yes, feminism is still necessary. We still have a long way to go. I think the main issue is the overly sexualised media making people believe it's OK to treat woman as sex objects and men like "chimps with I-Pods" (which is a quote from a magazine) who have no control over their own dicks (again just daft. We have no less control over our sex drives than woman).

But there is line between being feminism and misandry. And the stereotype is that people who label themselves as feminists are actually misandrists (I'm not argueing whether this is true or not, but it is the stereotype non the less). Some people have obviously stepped away from this in order to shut the anti-feminists up and that's where the equality for all arguement comes in, becasue it's one of many prejudisms that is a problem.

I think the OP in herself has created another stereotype with those who claim that they are non-feminists. The image cunjured up is the type who thinks her job is nothing more than being pretty (and then there's the shaving arguement that comes up now and then), where's crippling shoes, says she's happy to please and obey her man and so on and so forth. Why do we feel the need to stereotype everyone? Why do we think everyone fits in categories?

The answer is yes, everyones actions affect society on the whole. Lead by example and don't stereotype others. Stop putting everyone in a category.

I have to say that yes it is sad that many people won't even look at Feminism because of stereotypes, however, MY reasons, born from MY experiences thus far in life have not been born from the mouths of men, but from the mouths of those who've given themselves the title of Feminist. So for me, the negative stereotype came directly from the Feminists I've met not from those who stand against them.

I call myself a feminist and an egalitarian

I am not sure some radfems woulod becuase I have apparenlty 'meekly' accepted carer status (although i fight to improve how it is viewed)

They are not my problem; they are free to believe different things to me but I could never identify with either non- feminists or radfems. I am possibly more radical than my friends in that I consciously consider the issues but that's it.

Ooo just seen this! A thread about my thread! I feel honoured

As the poster on the first page said, I AM very willing and open to question my own views. I am embarassed by them. But I still think them

I very much enjoyed reading the replies on my thread. I found them very very helpful. I'm still thinking about it all.

My gf says this all the time.
Leaves me
Still, she would, the silly little flower (tongue firmly in cheek)

"My Feminism lecturer at Uni (one compulsory module which I actually found quite interesting) actually told me I was betraying my sex because I was happily married, wore make up and had my nails painted,"

You're the first person I have ever come across who has actually had something like this said to them (well, since the exctiting, over the top days of the 1970s - which I suspect I am the only person here old enough to remember). It's always "a friend" or "a colleague" - or something reported in the paper. You are very unlucky to have come across such a very silly woman. But why would you detach yourself from a movement because you met a bonkers person in it?

Lots of people are saying that they don't agree with radical feminists.

What do radical feminists believe?

Bizarrely, my life at present is the epitomy of feminism. My DH is a SAHH and I go out to work!! I earn a lot doing a highly respected (male dominated) job.

When I told my boss I was pregnant he lowered his head to the table and told me he was "disappointed". I then came back from mat leave and now work a 3 day week. When in his office once he was talking about someone in another dept who works 3 days and said "God I hate these women who work three days a week, makes things so difficult". Also had someone had work try to quiz me on what contraception I use as "I must have got pregnant on purpose now I am secure in my job" (DS was unplanned). Had same person ask if I put my business cards up in telephone boxes when I said I had run out. I felt very angry at these comments.

As a response to the "being prescriptive" comments. The only one of my views I really think that about is the pro-life one (or anti-choice or whatever you want to call it).

The way I see it is, I have to want to prescribe it on others because of how I feel about it. For example would you say that as long as you don't murder anyone yourself then you can't tell others not to???? Do you see what I mean? BUT I REALLY REALLY REALLY do not want an argument on abortion. I just think these things. I have never in my life told anyone what/what not to do in real life.

Seeker I do believe I WAS unlucky, and I simply thought she was potty (I suspect she was a relic of the exciting over the top days) and I'm not a Feminist hater by any stretch. I don't know enough academical about 'the movement' to nail my colours to the mast in capitals, so am happy with my lower case feminist leanings. I hate injustice and will and have fought against it, I guess sometimes that makes me more of a feminist than I think, sometimes not so.

I'll probably change my mind at some point, but I'm happy where I at right now. I'm a bit of a Princess in Bovva Boots, I like climbing trees in pink shoes and don't see why I shouldn't, so maybe the mad professor's comments stung me more than I thought. Maybe I thought that to be considered 'valid' I'd have to give up too much of what I liked? shrugs

Does my above view make it impossible for me to be a feminist? My feminist friend thinks it does...

Seeker

My experience of radfems is that they will try and make women who don;t conform to their own views of how things should be feel as if they are letting teh side down.

So carer, SAHM, at the very extreme end (which is what I am referencing here) actually liking men.

My personal opinion is that the route to equality does not come via putting down women who do not agree with you. Feminism should be inclusive not extreme.

"You're the first person I have ever come across who has actually had something like this said to them"

An English teacher in college said something along these lines to my DP because she was pregnant and happily living with me. She was extremely rude to all the men in the class as well, and overly harsh on them. She apparently viewed everything as a feministic issue and chose only those pieces that she viewed as showing this, like the Merchant of Venice.

And the same thing has been said countless times on mumsnet.

I don't think it makes it impossible NunsoQueer.. But what does it matter what me or your friend think? We're not the Pope of feminism. You don't think being female should be a disadvantage, and that there are ways and means round things if people effin could be bothered. That sounds pretty feminist

I say to anyone who says I'm not a proper feminist to F OFF who made you Queen. Well, in my head I say it. In rl I give a wintry smile and say 'do you think so'.

Shhh don't tell anyone but there are anti men themes in some feminism....radical feminism, where the starting point is that all men are rapists.

Not True, Crapola. A common misconception.

TheAtomicBum - 'But there is line between being feminism and misandry. And the stereotype is that people who label themselves as feminists are actually misandrists'.

I totally agree with this. Unfortunately, I remember at university one of my housemates was exactly this stereotype and I think she, and others like her, have done no favours for feminism. Equality should be at the heart of feminism, not replacing patriarchy with matriarchy.

I think there is a feminist section for these kinds of debates?

Oh, in fact I know there is a section - I hid it only yesterday.

I agree with the poster who said can't stand fanatics of any shape, colour etc.

hiding this thread too FWIW

"You don't have to be a fanatic to be a feminist fgs."

No, equally I don't think you need to label yourself a feminist in order to care about equal rights.

I think the reason a lot of women don't call themselves feminists is that the slander campaign against feminism has sadly been very successful. Feminists are seen as men-hating bra-burners who insist that all women should WOH and look as scruffy as possible. And that feminists want to put women above men, rather than on an equal footing. And since most women quite like men, as individuals, and are so culturally conditioned to need to look good, that embracing a movement which, in their incorrect view, means rejecting all they hold dear, of course they don't want to join in.

Perhaps we shouldn't ask women if they are feminists. It is just a label after all. Instead we should ask if they believe in causes like getting better education for girls in developing countries, stopping FGM and getting better and equal parental rights for everyone. You might find that they agree, and you have an ally, instead of getting all upset over a disagreement over labels.

I'm not keen on some of the more extreme views expressed on the feminism board, but I accept that different people have different views, and they are entitled to theirs. I don't think we have to agree on everything. There's no-one handing out Feminist Licences to women who only believe the 'right' feminist principles. Ignore anyone who tells you're less of a feminist because you don't happen to agree with them, they have no right to do so.

I can't help but feel that those of you rejecting feminism because you don't agree with the extremists are cutting off your nose to spite your face. I'm Jewish, I really don't agree with radical Jews who are occupying land in the West Bank. But I'm not going reject Judaism because of a few nutters. Instead, I'd rather show the world the normal and sensible face of Judaism, so that others can see that most of us are only trying to make like better and easier for everyone. I'd imagine the same goes for most Muslims. And the same should apply to feminism. The more of us there are getting out the message that it's OK to be a feminist and shave your legs, stay at home and bake cupcakes, the more other people will want to join in, IMO.

If anyone tells me "you can't be a feminist because..." I tell them that unless their sentence ends with "...you think that men and women should not be equal" then they are talking out of their arses.

Sorry, but there is a certain type of feminism which comes across very anti-men, or at least, their views are as sexist as the old-fashioned views about women they are trying to change.

And there are some others who are less bigotted but whose views I still find rather . Things like removing hair from your body is wrong, wearing makeup or being pretty is wrong, the whole 'Pink Stinks' schlock, doing any kind of traditional female role is of less value than being all kick ass and doing a traditionally masculine job, accepting any sort of biological difference between the genders is wrong...

I wouldn't want to be associated with them but yes, on balance I am a feminist. The reasonable sort though, I hope.

I suppose there are extremes in every 'ism'.

I do sometimes think people talk about what they think feminism is, rather thatn what it actually is. And in some cases what the press say it is. I am very old, and I have been a feminist for a very long time. And I know a lot of people. And I think I can only think of 2, or possibly 3, "man-haters". And I suspect they were women who had espoused feminism because their life experiences had led them to hate men, rather than the other way round.

I have met feminists in dungarees and designer suits, hairy legged and smooth. It is ONLY in the minds of the media, and of people with an anti feminist agenda that the man hating, dungareed hairy person exists. The Establishment has a vested interest in keeping women "in their place" What better way to do it than to create an image of activist women that other women despise?