AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as....

[seeker]

.....not a feminist?

This thread and the other one are tickling me greatly. It's just like being 18 again, only back then women didn't have all these rights to take for granted.

Can't wait to come back and read them tomorrow!
Meanwhile,
OldLadyKnowsNothing Thu 30-Jun-11 00:03:02

I used to define myself as feminist. I used to work for Women's Aid.
I stopped calling myself feminist when radfems on MN told me I couldn't possibly be feminist because I didn't agree with them.

Fellow old lady, I so know what you mean!!

However, while listening to my daily tripe on Radio 2 today, I did do a bit of air-punching that they've had a representative of the feminist viewpoint on EVERY DAY for at least three weeks now :)

They're not calling them feminists, of course, but who cares. I've noticed the same thing in the mid-market press, too. The backlash against the backlash seems to have started.

Thank goodness.

Because I do not agree with many of the rabid feminists' views.
In trivial matters, I like when a man opens the door for me, gives me his seat, carries my bags etc. etc ad nauseam.
In less trivial matters, I have never experienced 'glass ceiling', and have always been promoted and compensated same if not better than my male colleagues. Yet have witnessed many a woman shout sexism when the reasons for their woes were really their own inadequacies; simply, they were not good enough for the job. Nothing whatsoever to do with being a woman.
Could go on....
Can't stand fanatics of any colour, shape, size or ideology.

Feminism and equalism are not the same thing at all.

And I do find the "Well, I've never experienced sexism in my life so therefore it doesn't exist" argument deeply depressing.

It's liek saying "Racism doesn;t exist because the American President's black"

ANd every movement;, philosophy, belief or group has it's extremists. Saying that you would not identify with a cause because there are some bonkers people at the extreme ends of it is practically a definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Well Rollmops, you've feminists to thank for that.

Can't stand fanatics of any colour, shape, size or ideology.

absolutely! Rapid feminists are hilarious tbh

rabid not rapid lol

< sometimes thinks that Rabid Feminists just need a good shag .... heresy, but ykwim :) >

Can't stand fanatics of any colour, shape, size or ideology

So true!!! This is what gives feminists a bad name - they just get written off as loons so going off on one about say a pink screw driver just trivialises the important stuff.

You don't have to be a fanatic to be a feminist fgs.
Why does that need repeating over and over again. No one accuses anti racists of being fanatical white haters. Why is that? What is the difference?

Im a lower-case feminist I think, because I'm a woman and believe in sorting out any inequalities that affect me and who I am and what I happened to be born as. I hesitate to say I'm an upper-case Feminist because frankly I don't agree with much of the guff those that label themselves as such spout.

I am big on equal rights, and choices regardless of gender, age, colour, religion.

I also hate the idea that equality is often seen as 'the same as' - for me its not, equality means of equal value.

I despise radfems as much as I despise my neighbour who believes that women shouldn't be allowed into the main bar of our local pub...

You can be a feminist without troubling yourself overmuch with analysis about pink screwdrivers as well. Some people enjoy analysis.

But if a conversation about a pink screwdriver puts you off caring about sexual violence, or discrimination in the workplace, then you re not thinking very clearly, imo.

Fuck the pink screwdrivers and pole dancing wallpapers, if you don't feel they're relevant. But why throw the baby out with the bathwater?

But believing in equality is being a feminist

My Husband believes in equality and he's not a feminist

"I hesitate to say I'm an upper-case Feminist because frankly I don't agree with much of the guff those that label themselves as such spout. "

Like what?

Looking just at the OP I would guess it's because she doesn't know what feminism is (or she disagrees with my definition of feminism).

Can I do my simple feminism test?

1 - Do you think that people should be treated, valued & respected equally, no matter what their gender?
Yes - go to 2
No - You are a sexist
2 - Do you believe that this is currently not the case?
Yes - go to 3
No - take a look around, things are not as equal as they seem - if still in doubt read The Equality Illusion - then answer yes and go to 3
3 - Would you like it to be the case?
Yes - Congratulations, you are a feminist
No - Er, what? You think people should be equal but you don't want them to be? Huh?

then he doesn't believe in equality does he worraliberty.

There are two issues here,
the basic believing in equality one which everyone concurs with.
The fear of the label in case someone applies a stereotype to you. Hairy legged humourless manhater obsessed with trivialities.
Personally, I feel if people want to stereotype me that's their problem. I certainly wouldn't deny being Irish say, because some people think that means I must trot through bogs drinking potteen on a daily basis with a pig under one arm and semtex under the other. I would think that if anyone applied such an outlandish and ridiculous sterotype to me they must be a misinformed loon, who can be safely ignored.

Do we need another question?

Do you think that an individual's actions and attitudes have an impact on other people and on society at large, and that we have a responsibility to act in the way that is most likely to benefit other women as well as ourselves?

Well out of those I've met who've 'declared' themselves as Feminist (which I found odd in an introduction) the list is too long! Its more to do with the label and assumption that I should agree as OldLadyKnowsNothing has said. In general terms, I'm a female who worked in a male dominated industry very happily for years and in that context, at that time, feminism and equality were very important to me as I did have to fight more to be given the same value as my colleagues, I've also been a victim of DV and seen injustices first hand of simply being the wrong gender for respect. Women's rights I hold dear because I am a woman.

Then, for me, things do tend to get blurred, the people that I have met who declare themselves Feminists seem to think that because I LIKE some of the differences between the genders (I like gentlemen) I am betraying my gender, the fact that I don't believe a woman speaks for her whole gender in her actions but only speaks for herself is also something that has caused rows amongst the more well read Feminists and myself... I am not a well read feminist, I tend to lose on my lack of literary knowledge on the subject and movement.

My Feminism lecturer at Uni (one compulsory module which I actually found quite interesting) actually told me I was betraying my sex because I was happily married, wore make up and had my nails painted, I wasn't worthy of serious acknowledgement as a woman and was a victim of my patriachal heritage. I was dismissed as a nobody. Had a man said those things to me, then I'd have been able to rally a fair few feminists to declare him a sexist pig. Because it was a woman, it seemed I was fair game. I lost interest in the label. Rightly or wrongly.

"And I do find the "Well, I've never experienced sexism in my life so therefore it doesn't exist" argument deeply depressing."

Totally agree seeker.

And so what if some feminist are 'rabid' (nice choice of word considering that men have always loved to call strong and opinionated women 'mad') - that's their choice and FFS they have enough reasons to be. You don't have to be in the same place as them to be feminists. All this carping about labels is so counterproductive. Stop bloody quibbling - just stand up for your own sex and stop worrying about the details.

But Aldiwhore that's just a difference of opinion. Surely you don't think all women are the same, think the same, have the same perspectives? Why let that annoying lecturer claim the title - aren't you every bit as entitled to it as she was?

Please don't think I'm having a go, I am just interested.

I wouldn't call myself or want anyone else to call me a feminist because for me it carries very negative connotations of mad, man hating women with radical views that I rarely agree with. So I wouldn't want to be labelled as such. Doesn't mean I don't think women should have equal rights.

I haven't even looked at the feminist threads to confirm or deny if this is the case. Maybe I should have a look....

wouldn't call myself or want anyone else to call me a feminist because for me it carries very negative connotations of mad, man hating women with radical views that I rarely agree with. So I wouldn't want to be labelled as such. Doesn't mean I don't think women should have equal rights

Well said Milly

Maybe you should MilyP. It's a real shame that people are corralled away from identifying with their own best interests by a deliberatedly perpetuated stereotype. Neat trick, that.

When I first came here I said that I didn't like the label of Feminist....and that I thought it was outdated with negative connotations. I was soon put right.

It's important to help people learn about Feminsim and why it's nothing to do with hairy legs.

(even though mine are ape-like today)