AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as....

[seeker]

.....not a feminist?

Ho, YES, seeker! What you said on Mon 04-Jul-11 10:15:09

Disagree does not = Attack
Dislike does not = Attack
Casuistry = Attack
Belittlement = Attack
Dismissal is hostile.

The meanings seem to get confuddled rather often "over there".

All I see on this thread is discussion about posting styles. There are serious issues to be debated - and while we waste time not debating them our daughters will continue to have to be twice as good as our sons in order to be equal to them.

And I do think it is insane to say "I've stopped being a feminist because somebody was a bit mean to me on an internet forum"

Oi Lenin - It's was me who came up with the term 'Millwall of Mumsnet'.

Back to the topic in hand, I actually identify as a Muslim feminist, which some will tell you is an oxymoron, but I don't care and I can tell you there are many, many Muslim feminists out there.

I think that's a another issue. It's important to try and read widely, because then you'll see what a wide variety of views there are concerning feminism.

For example, while I agree with what most on the MN feminist board has to say about violence against women, I very much disagree with some of the transphobic views put forward by some there and reading other opinions elsewhere has helped me articulate why.

Seeker; what do you mean our daughters have to work twice as hard as our sons to be equal - in what way? ( I'm talking about western society - the society my daughters live in )

I've wanted to learn about feminism, I tried to post in the feminism section. I gave up. I now read a fair bit and happily take in views and question my thinking but as much as I want to get involved, I now sit on my hands

There is no point engaging sometimes, I've had enough women bullying me and twisting my words in my lifetime, I don't need it to happen on here too

I think if you are a parent to a son (as well as girls) you want a fair life for all of them - which is where my idea of equality comes in, I want all my children to live an equal life. I do call myself a feminist though and I discuss feminist issues with my daughters, son and their friends

The problem on MN (I feel) is that some diehard feminists believe their way is the only way. Some are very quick to label others as antifems or rape apologists - when to the average poster with feminist principles they are obviously not. It's easy to say ignore them but if you want to be part of a discussion, it's hard not to come back and fight your corner. More and more people will walk away and give up posting which is a real shame

I don't think I want to be part of an 'ism which is so caught up in critical debate about what is and isn't allowed amongst its membership. Why is Feminism so critical and prone to rigidity, is it an inherently female thing? Easier to be part of most religions, really.

My my, you've all been busy.

Carminagetsprimal - Seeker sounds as if she is referring to it being harder to get into a professional job as a woman. I suppose there is an arguement that it is true, in some cases.

For one thing, you've got the maternity leave arguement. I think that's been covered up the thread. The question being why is it that men cannot take the maternity leave to stay at home with the children? Some would if it was possible.

The other arguement is the "male" professions. I've seen a woman qualify as a mechanic and had to work twice as hard to get in. On the other hand, there are also "female" professions. If a man decided to be a beautician or a midwife, it would be taboo and difficult for him if he was not gay.

Most of these are caused by cultural stereotypes. Stereotypes that need to be let go of in order to move forward.

"And I do think it is insane to say "I've stopped being a feminist because somebody was a bit mean to me on an internet forum""

Posters have said a little more than that.

I think there are a few issues here.

1 - When talking about feminism on MN and why they do not identify as feminist on MN, it is inevitable that it is going to bring up how many people get told (on MN) that they aren't feminists, or that they are anti-feminist.

2 - A question like this on MN is also going to bring up why people actively avoid the feminism section.

3 - If people have only really engaged with debate on feminism on MN then it's understandable that the feminism section on here will colour their views.

4 - Then there is the confusion over what "equalist" means. And why some people prefer to identify with that rather than with feminism. And also why some people see "equalist" as denying the need for women's right. (As sunshineandbooks explained earlier in the thread)

TAB; Im not sure that's true. There are gender based professions and I'm not really sure what's wrong with that / men can look after children just as well as women, they just don't want to do those jobs - equally, not too many women want to be plumbers/electricians/roofers etc - nothing stopping me setting up as a plumber if I wanted to, but You can't 'force' people into jobs they have no interest in - that kinda defeats the object.

No, you misanderstand, Camin. What I'm saying is that the ones that do go into these have a harder time. And the reason that they don't want to is because of stereotypes. And I wonder if there wasn't such stigma around these professions, would more people chose to do them? Are woman some how naturally better at dressing hair and are men somehow always better at fixing a car? No. It's just peoples views.

And what I am trying to get at is that as long as these views decide what we do with our careers (and various other things), there will be a divide as we will always see both as being separate.

I think for the most part those who aren't happy in the feminist section just stay away.

And I wasn't saying that people should be forced into doing things they don't want. They just shouldn't be talked out of it so much if they suggest it.

Yeah but

All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good women to do nothing

We should all challenge it

"I think for the most part those who aren't happy in the feminist section just stay away."

Yes - and they are the "silent majority" :)

Those who are slient are said to agree.