AIBU to wonder why any woman would identify herself as....

[seeker]

.....not a feminist?

In my not remotely humble opinion, I think that wimminfeminists need to take the sistas with us. Belittling and shouting puts them off. Lead gently and kindly into the pastures of reason and sunlight. Inclusivity is so much more effective than giving them a party line and kicking the shit out of them if they don't toe it. After all, one should always keep the end in mind and not just enjoy giving a good kicking whilst on the journey. Never has worked. Never will.

You know something?

I STILL don't know what it is that feminists think and believe that women who don't identify as feminists disagree with so strongly!

Nothing.

Smoke and mirrors.

Shouting and whispers.

It's what they THINK identifying with feminism will say about them. People wot don't like wimminpower have done a damn good job in portraying feminists as Andrea Dworkin-lookalikes who want to strangle men at birth. They don't get any education to the contrary, partly because, if they do go mad and venture onto eg a fem board here, they are likely to be jumped on. Thus their prejudices are reconfirmed. Nothing like doing the patriarchy's work for them. Lose lose.

Teena-
[most of these people have no idea that they.........................]
im finding what youre saying interesting Teena-could you explain this more please?
[im not quite understanding you but i am -iyswim?]

I think it was dittany who said how well the feminist section is doing and how many people post on it now - I'm sure there are some interesting debates going on, but a lot of the threads are titled something along the lines of - 'my dd wants a pink lunch box - please help' - or, 'dd prefers watching Glee to reading Julie Bindel - I'm devastated'

And totally Agree about DSK. He's guilty no matter what. ( thank god we don't have the death penalty anymore )

lol at Lenin.

Agree HRH - it's only on here I've come across feminists who seem so angry.

But LeninGrad I don't remember you ignoring Daftpunk, and she was silenced.

This so so sad. I mean really heart-breaking.

Some of these posts are really unpleasant. A lot of mutual back-slapping and 'and you'll never guess what they did then...' sort of posts about feminists.

I just can't beleive that women are prepared to ditch feminism because some people on one internet board are a bit abrasive. And FWIW I've had a drubbing on there before now and I do think that there can be a difficult atmosphere and sometimes I wish there was more concilitation and explanation rather than sarcasm and aggression, but there have been many exchanges that have made me think and challenge cosy assumptions. Sometimes it takes someone shouting at you for you to actually listen and take something in.

Lenin[9.41 post]
i completly agree with you.

seeker...... the trouble with feminism is that when you really scratch the surface you see injustice everywhere. I almost refuse to read some of the books like the beauty myth because I like wearing make up and looking nice, I couldn't face the world if my eyes were opened so that I felt I was betraying women by wanting others to think I look nice.

Perhaps for feminists, like myself, it's too frustrating that some people don't want to be feminists....as if feminism is some form of bias and superiority complex.

Is it because we are women talking to and about other women that disagreeing robustly is seem as "bashing"? Are we supposed to be all nicey-nicey with each other?

And for what it's worth, it always seems to me that if people don't want to think about what somebody else is saying they attack the way they say it.

Wow, Milly, this: I feel where I was brought up women's dress is within a tradition of camp and is not predominantly about either sexiness or sexism is really interesting! I haven't a clue what you're talking about specifically, but would love to hear more. I am interested in styles of dress and particularly the way cultural assumptions inform judgements on appearance. Very much a feminist topic, imo, but hard to discuss on That Board.

I'll gather my tattered courage and start a thread ...

Was most amused by the "Parliament acts like a bunch of bun-throwing schoolboys, so it must be a proper way to behave" argument upthread

I am going to try and read this later as I find the whole atmosphere around the feminism section interesting and a little disconncerting.

I think it might be helpful to separate the real views of the various posters from the perception created via tone and manner of a few.

Other sections have the same problem -people make assumptions when they are not regular and constant users of that section. That perception may or may not be true.

But feminism is odd because it is a section where most of us would expect to feel fully at home and yet many of us do not. I have a sensation similar to attending weight watchers with a cream bun -I am not quite meeting the exacting standards.

That may be completely wrong. My reaction may be based on a totally false premis but it would be more likely if I were the only one, surely.
When lots of people feel this way is it not more useful to discuss how to resolve that rather than argue about who's fault it is.

"And totally Agree about DSK. He's guilty no matter what. ( thank god we don't have the death penalty anymore )"

Agree...you take one look at a thread like that - or the thread in Feminism about this thread - and you just walk away. Life is too short......