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Original poster

The Non-Feminist Point of View

600 replies

JamesHuff · 29/06/2011 15:00

I have noticed over the last while that the Feminist section has grown over the last bit.

This does not surprise me, but I feel compelled to ask why this site has begun to ascribe to a sociopolitical ideology when it was originally a resource for parents.

I think that as a result of this discrepancy, non-feminist points of view should have their own section as well. I hope people who disagree with inequalities feminism has created within our legislation will be compelled to express themselves more often.

I don't see it as unreasonable. Since there will be disagreements on various topics, I just figure a non-feminist based section would be in order. This way parents have a choice that reflects both sides of the coin.

OP posts:
ILoveYouToo · 29/06/2011 22:31

All of you; I take your point and I've read the links.

But aren't you all descending utterly to that level by posting repeated sexual and gender insults, personal insults etc. Someone earlier posted a vile quote from one of the forums he's on about the bagginess of a woman's cunt.

Vile, no?

But then it's ok to insult someone you disagree with by composing limericks/haikus about how tiny his dick must be?

I think that there's a difference between trolling just to cause distress and discord (like the awful thread recently about someone trolling re stillbirth) and 'trolling' ie disagreeing strongly about something they genuinely hold strong views about.

ILoveYouToo · 29/06/2011 22:34

I can't imagine that my politics and ideology could be much farther away from an ex-military, ultra right wing libertarian consersative (taken from his blog thing) who thinks women's lib shouldn't have happened. Really. Grin

But do I think the best way to combat those beliefs is to make up rhymes about how tiny his dick is, whilst he is posing legitimate questions in a polite manner?

Er...no.

AnyFucker · 29/06/2011 22:36

I think piss-taking is the absolute way to deal with someone like him

he says he wants reasoned debate

that is not true

where there is no reason, there is no debate

SybilBeddows · 29/06/2011 22:36

are you sure you've read the links?
all the way through?
the stuff about Andrea Dworkin's rape? and you think the stuff said on here was as bad as that? really?

ILoveYouToo · 29/06/2011 22:37

I can't be arsed to find it now, but when I clicked on the link given here to his profile, and then clicked on his blog, the thing that came up was a long discourse on how to hold a reasoned and respectful debate with someone who holds diametrically opposed views to yours - it involved focusing on the facts as you see them and not getting drawn into a slanging match.

Yup; just what happened here, huh? Hmm

Pagwatch · 29/06/2011 22:38

Well, I guess we must disagree.

I wouldn't have posted some of the stuff on here but that is true of most threads.

But I am not quite sure that his treatment on this thread would prompt me to lecture others about their behaviour.
I think he was hoping for a reaction and tried to provoke one.
Actually I suspect he is a bit disappointed as he wanted everyone to be angry and aghast and actually most thought him sad and attention seeking

HidingInTheUndergrowth · 29/06/2011 22:39

hmmm..LYT, I think there is a massive differance between some of the things written by the lovely Jamez and a couple of humourous haikus. Seriously, there are times when people can be down right rude and horrid on mumsnet and do us all no favours at all but I really don't think you can class this as one of them Hmm

Besides the man was a twit who couldn't form a sensible argument if he was given instructions and an easy to understand video guide. Sheesh... you should really choose the people you want to defend a bit better.

AnyFucker · 29/06/2011 22:40

if I met a person like that in RL, I would not give them the time of day

why should I bother just because he is on the internet ?

the bloke deserves to be treated like the no-mark he is

politeness and respect needs to be earned and deserved...

epic fail (from him) on both counts

I expect you might say that works both ways

but blokes like him start from a point of disrespecting women...he has no intention of listening to anyone else's viewpoint but his own...and then gleefully "share his data" with his prick friends

I am afraid he will be having a very sly smile at your naive take on the situation, ILYT

PrinceHumperdink · 29/06/2011 22:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SybilBeddows · 29/06/2011 22:41

ILYT I am totally confused as to why you think that we have to follow the rules he states on his blog and which he does not himself follow elsewhere.

do you think he's, like, in charge or something? Hmm

CaptainBizarro · 29/06/2011 22:42

ILYT makes a good point.

Clearly the OP was trolling and trolling badly, but the responses on here just further ingrain his thoughts.

I honestly don't think it ever hurts to try to engage people and at least attempt to educate, if not them, then maybe any other people posting on the thread, like that guy who's forever complaining about this place and yet is here all the bloody time (mdowdall - seriously, dude, no-one takes you in the slightest bit seriously), or even people lurking who might agree with the OP.

Please don't get me wrong - his views are utterly distasteful and I find them abhorrent, ignorant and badly misinformed - but if there's any chance at all of him seeing the other side, then going on about the size of his dick, as tempting as it may be, is not going to sway him, nor anyone else aligned with his way of thinking.

swallowedAfly · 29/06/2011 22:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

ILoveYouToo · 29/06/2011 22:43

Is that something that the OP said, Sybil? I didn't read every link.

The posts I read of the OP painted him as a small minded, deluded bigot, in my opinion. But I encounter quite a few people on MN who raise the same feelings, frankly, but I don't think it's ok to sling the kind of vicious insults I've seen here. Confused

It's the double standards that really piss me off.

I love don't mind a bit of swearing. Or a few well phrased insults. But this just seemed so fucking childish.

Maybe I'm just premenstrual. The very rude response to a troll thread recently had me literally crying with laughter, so perhaps it's just me. I really hate hypocrisy.

AnyFucker · 29/06/2011 22:44

but the responses on here just further ingrain his thoughts.

I really don't give a shit about that

because his just further ingrain mine, about people like him

it doesn't matter what you say....don't you get that ?

PrinceHumperdink · 29/06/2011 22:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ILoveYouToo · 29/06/2011 22:46
SybilBeddows · 29/06/2011 22:46

CB we're not trying to sway him.
There is absolutely no point investing time and emotional energy in trying to change these people's views. A certain type of them will even play the game where they pretend you have convinced them when people are showing signs of flagging.
You don't waste time trying to convince trolls, you laugh at them.
If they are funny, of course, which this one was.

SuePurblybilt · 29/06/2011 22:46

Did you imagine that reasoned debate here would change his mind? Of course not. The only way to deal with people like him is to laugh at them. It'll be a tiny prick (see what I did there?) in his puffed up sense of importance but a prick all the same.

AnyFucker · 29/06/2011 22:46

A few points to him now, though

he has us arguing amongst ourselves

I expect he will be awarded a special medal for that when he goes back to where he belonngs Sad

Stop it now

SybilBeddows · 29/06/2011 22:48

7 PH? That many?

swallowedAfly · 29/06/2011 22:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

SybilBeddows · 29/06/2011 22:50

was it him who posted that insane thing about how far more men are raped than women, when the figures were estimated versus reported? (Oh, and neglected to mention this was men being raped by men not women Hmm) that is not reasoned debate, that is pretend reasoned debate.

ILoveYouToo · 29/06/2011 22:52

HidingInTheUndergrowth "Besides the man was a twit who couldn't form a sensible argument if he was given instructions and an easy to understand video guide. Sheesh... you should really choose the people you want to defend a bit better."

There was no argument or debate; just slanging. Anyone who spoke reasonably, he answered reasonably (I don't agree with his reasoning or opinions, but he conveyed them politely and without insult).

I didn't consciously choose to defend him, I just read the thread and it irritated me how fucking hypocritical MN sometimes seems to me (I've commented on this loads of times) in what is deemed ok to say to a man, as opposed to what is deemed ok to say to a woman. I felt like that much earlier and wasn't going to comment, but after several glasses of wine and discussing it with DP, I was sufficiently drunkenly irritated to post.

AnyFucker · 29/06/2011 22:52

yes, sybil

more men than women are raped, apparently

oh, and all women want to be raped

we are meant to take this cock seriously ?

how can you reasonably debate with that ?

CaptainBizarro · 29/06/2011 22:54

I'm not arguing with anyone - we just have slightly different views on the best way to handle it. God knows, I don't want to sidetrack this!

I did say educate if not him, then others who might be reading. I do realise that yer man is probably a lost cause, but I honestly don't think it hurts to, I dunno, engage and have him expand a bit on his thoughts in order to give him enough rope to hang himself? At least then he also looks like a dick to his followers as well.

Seriously - I'm not disagreeing that he is a twat if the highest order. Just on the best way to show him up for the idiot he is.