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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The Non-Feminist Point of View

600 replies

JamesHuff · 29/06/2011 15:00

I have noticed over the last while that the Feminist section has grown over the last bit.

This does not surprise me, but I feel compelled to ask why this site has begun to ascribe to a sociopolitical ideology when it was originally a resource for parents.

I think that as a result of this discrepancy, non-feminist points of view should have their own section as well. I hope people who disagree with inequalities feminism has created within our legislation will be compelled to express themselves more often.

I don't see it as unreasonable. Since there will be disagreements on various topics, I just figure a non-feminist based section would be in order. This way parents have a choice that reflects both sides of the coin.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 29/06/2011 16:52

GeekCool, yes I am female

I have a better beard than our Jamez though

mayorquimby · 29/06/2011 16:54

No but seriously, have I missed something from the main strands of feminism? Because I am not very well versed in the subject at all. I have studied it as part of my legal training as a school of jurisprudence so I do understand that it is too wide and varied to really be classed as a singular idea/philosophy but I would have no more than a rudimentary over-view of some of the different strands such as liberal,cultural and radical. And a bit about Carol Gilligan and Mackinnon. And while there's plenty I'd wholeheartedly disagree with in there. I think Carol Gilligans theories in "In A Different Voice" (sorry may have the title wrong) was one of the most sexist things I've ever read yet it was under the banner of feminism as far as my jurisprudence course was concerned.
So have I got the nuts and bolts of it, or am I missing another fundamental strand which may apply to all feminists?

AnnieLobeseder · 29/06/2011 16:54

Wow. I don't think I have ever seen so many posts deleted. I'm worried that Jamez has infiltrated MNHQ and is holding them at gunpoint and making them delete stuff.

reelingintheyears · 29/06/2011 16:54

And bigger bollocks aswell i suspect AF..WinkGrin

AnyFucker · 29/06/2011 16:56

never a truer word written, reeling...

TimeWasting · 29/06/2011 16:56

Feminist = belief that men and women should be treated with equal respect.
Non-feminist = belief that men and women should not be treated with equal respect.

Is that right James/z?

SinicalSal · 29/06/2011 16:57

Haven't clicked on the link and tbh don't want to.

But I am curious as top the nature of the experiment.

Is it
To show that calling people inferior will provoke a negative response.

Well I never

dirgeinvegas · 29/06/2011 16:57

A thread that has truly brightened up my afternoon.

James I am genuinely curious about your views. Do you view the term Feminism to mean something else or do you genuinely not believe that men and women should be treated equally?

I honestly am interested in your view because although I hear a lot of people saying "I'm not a feminist" or "I don't agree with feminism" no one has ever been able to intelligently explain why to me. I hold views on all kinds of things but I can explain my views, it furthers debate and discussion.

reelingintheyears · 29/06/2011 16:58

There's another of these going on from Mr BarnabyBananahead....

AnyFucker · 29/06/2011 17:00

We is 'avin' an invasion innit

reelingintheyears · 29/06/2011 17:02

Didn't pistonheads do this before now...

Ignore 'em and they'll go away..

As my old Ma says.

mayorquimby · 29/06/2011 17:02

"Here's my definition of a feminist in 3 easy steps:
1 - Do you think that people should be treated, valued & respected equally, no matter what their gender?
2 - Do you believe that this is currently not the case?
3 - Would you like it to be the case?
3 x yes = feminist"

Hmm interesting. I may find 2 problematic to have such a wide application, becuase there are many areas which I think women are treated unequally and there are many I do not. I'm finding it hard to explain myself and apologies if any of this does sound sexist in anyway it's not intended in that manner (I'm simply trying to tease out the issue to improve my own understanding), because as i say I'm not very well versed in the subject, but you may have areas were women find themselves being indirectly favoured such as a very small section of the legal process. So mothers tend to get custody and mothers with dependants tend to avoid jail where male counterparts may not, however I also recognise that the reason for these small advantages are most likely the indirect results of a soceity which has set up women to stay in the home and have dependants and also place a value on women solely in their role as homemakers.
I also think that a lot of my lack of understanding may have to do with my age and socio-economic group. I'm in my mid 20's and come from a well off background. I would say that broadly speaking the girls/women I know have in general out-performed the men in each academic course I have attended and are streaks ahead in their careers at this point. However it is also true that I may also be shielded by the fact that young pregnancies are not common in my social groups so that factor has been removed from my anecdotle evidence and also when people do start getting married and having kids among my friends it could well be that I will see the negative effects it will have on the women but not the men.

Once again apologies if this is coming across as sexist, I am honestly only looking to further my understanding.

LindenAvery · 29/06/2011 17:02

Algebra..........In general terms XX is equivalent to XY and the reverse is also true. Occasionally for some substitutions this may be false. For a further explaination check thread.

AbsDuCroissant · 29/06/2011 17:03

Jamezzzzzzzzzz

I think one of the reasons you may be single is because of the goatee

It's no longer 1994. Might be time to reconsider

HTH

AnyFucker · 29/06/2011 17:06

so

XX = XY

except when XY is a cockhead

did I get that right ?

TrilllianAstra · 29/06/2011 17:09

If you are reasonably well off and don't have children yet then you might not have seen a lot of overt sexism personally in your everyday life. Why not look around at people outside your immediate social circle, or look at the media, or ask one of the statistics-having feminists to give you some statistics, or just ask some of your female friends if they have ever experienced anything unpleasant that they would not have if they had been a man?

Ormirian · 29/06/2011 17:10

Oh this is fun!

I have to go now. Can we do it again tomorrow?

dirgeinvegas · 29/06/2011 17:12

MQ your tick list would lend itself well to a flow chart.

RevoltingPeasant · 29/06/2011 17:14

Best thread ever!

Had a crappy afternoon and this has totally cheered me up.

Thankz.

TrilllianAstra · 29/06/2011 17:15

It's my ticklist!

I can't draw a flowchart on here unfortunately...

1 - Do you think that people should be treated, valued & respected equally, no matter what their gender?
Yes - go to 2
No - You are a sexist
2 - Do you believe that this is currently not the case?
Yes - go to 3
No - take a look around, things are not as equal as they seem - if still in doubt read The Equality Illusion - then answer yes and go to 3
3 - Would you like it to be the case?
Yes - Congratulations, you are a feminist
No - Er, what? You think people should be equal but you don't want them to be? Huh?

reelingintheyears · 29/06/2011 17:17

RevoltingPeasant

good innit?

JamesHuff · 29/06/2011 17:17

@dirgeinvegas

That's the type of question that actually bears answering. Thank you for being polite.
I think that feminism's fight for equality did bring some good things to the attention of Western Culture.
However, those who hold the reigns of power have hijacked the movement and have begun to twist it.

Feminism in its current form is a non-sustainable ideology because it tends to be collectivist in nature.

The problem I have with it is:
Collectively...men owe women, or are evil, or misguided, or rapists, or (pick another negative connotation).
Collectively....women are victims.

These ideas have become so accepted that within our courts of law, there are blatent cases wherein women have been given lighter sentences for the same crime as a man.

Men in most cases are assumed to be the violent person in relationships, even though there is evidence that points to the contrary.

Many men may have equal custody of their children, but are still required to pay child support to the mother.

Now, once feminism becomes institutionalized it also has another side effect. Financial. The programs out there are not going to be sustainable in the near future. Our global market is struggling under the influence of bad banking decisions, government waste, and poor business practices.

Men are beginning to leave their social norms as far as earnings go. They realize in a hyper-sexualized society that they no longer need a nice house, a good career, or any preparation for family. Many also think they are not being treated fairly by the societies they live in. As a result, fewer men go to college to get get the good paying jobs.

This means decreased spending on the economic market (for big things like houses), and it also means less tax revenue to support the types of programs that NOW has been pushing for for years. It has a deleterious effect on the family, as the father is not as valued in the eyes of the law as the mother.

ect...ect...ect...

OP posts:
TimeWasting · 29/06/2011 17:17

MayorQuimby, I did not come to Feminism until I became a wife and mother, many of the inequalities don't start until one finds oneself in that position.

Pagwatch · 29/06/2011 17:17

They deleted my poem!

I have been deleted twice in 24 hours!

What in the world is happening

Was it my use of arse headed tit d'you think?

RevoltingPeasant · 29/06/2011 17:18

There once was a fucknut called James
Whose contentions were shot down in flames
He tried not to cry as we waved him bye-bye
And out-versified all of his claims.

Not up to Hully's standardz, I know....

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