AIBU to tell my brother to stick himself?

[fallenninja]

OK so brief background. about 10 years ago my DB got himself into a quite sticky financial mess. He had what should have been a very profitable business but he kept "borrowing" money to fund his and his DWs lifestyle. Cue massive debts, and verge of bankruptcy.

I very luckily had a house with a fair whack of equity in it, due to inheritance / buying cheaply when my parents divorced. With a whole host of conditions and reservations and following massive conversations I agreed for DB to raise a loan secured on my house (idiot) in order for him to sort this out. This was for £150k (i know even bigger idiot). Arrangement was simple. DB repaid the loan, over the 20years that it was for. DB didnt. Massive family falling out. I ended up remortgaing and obviously am now and will be forever paying the stupid loan off.

Over the last 5 years or so we seem to have repaired the family rift, and whilst it still galls me, I suppose in some ways ive let it go.

So now ...
DB yet again has got himself in a mess, there is to be a family meeting tonight to dicuss how to help him. Hes in a deep depression, his wife has left him (money issues - he can no longer keep her to the style she expects) and he obviously is in debt again. He tried to commit sucide last weekend.

Now obviously i am concerned about him, I love him, and dont want anything terrible to happen to him, but i have no interest in helping him financially or in any big commited way, which is where the disagreement is coming in.

Suggestion 1. I have a parcel of land which I know a builder would purchase to develop, so option is that I sell my plot of land, give the money to DB, and then his mum/DB will pay me a monthly sum up and until the value is met (including interest), so Ive not lost out as such.

Suggestion 2. DB IVAs and we as a family help him with the payments and also with the running of his business, I as an accountant seem to have been signed up for the massive brunt of this. Set up budgets/monitor expenditure/blah blah blah. However I know my brother and he wont pay any attention to me saying no, so i think it wont work

However if he did do something stupidly stupid because I didnt help i would struggle to forgive myself, but this is how i got guilted persuaded to help last time

So AIBU to say get lost? Or is DBs mum in asking me to consider this?

(Im off on the school run then popping to town, so shall return at lunch for the verdict)

fallenninja OOoh I used to be like that! I had to look after and please everyone and felt responsible for my whole family, their happiness etc and felt guilty if anything good happened to me or I did something nice like go on holiday or buy new shoes. I had a lot of couselling and it wasn't instant, but eventually the seeds the counsellor sowed did their work. I am a changed woman!

I've got a really bad feeling you're going to end up manipulated into helping him out again even though you know you shouldn't. You're too nice. You need someone with you fighting your corner.

Bloody hell they must love having you around. Why would you even consider endangering your DS's financial security for this leech? Just how gullible are you? Can I have you bank details?

me too, you don't sound resolute enough, OP

could you perhaps take some independent legal advice ?

you need to hear this from someone else without a vested interest in bailing out your brother and keeping the status quo

Don't give him a penny!

He took with no intention of paying back £150k of your money. Your child's inheritance?

He spent your money on himself and his wife, holidays, meals, cars etc without care or thought for you.

He has learnt nothing

He will do this again. Why would he not when others will just waste their money bailing him out over and over with no consequence.

If you do get manipulated into helping him (and I really, really, really don't think this is a good idea for you or your db), then it should be you buying a percentage of the business to give you at least some control.

But please don't do this!

Diddl,

Cannots:
DB (bad credit surprisingly not)
DBs wife(bad credit)
DBs wife family (apparently they are not allowed to know the situation, and must at all costs not know about the financial / practical and emotional difficulties at all costs, on DBs wifes orders)
DBs mum (bad credit)
DBs stepdad (on pension)
Dad (pension)
My mum (just wouldnt)

Cans:
Me
Our younger bro (however he is getting married later this year, then has been accepted at uni in 2 years for his PGCE I would not advocate him risking this on DB1)

I dont know of any of his friends who he could ask.

This is why I feel backed into a corner, where does responsibility to family stop? Do we all borrow £5k for him, then at least when he screws up, we are all screwed a little bit, rather than 1 of us (i.e) get screwed massively?

We are also then still with the problem of running the business, because that would fall to me. I feel if I am going to run the business then, I will happily pay DB a £50k salary and I will manage it all and keep the profits! However DB would not agree to this, he wants to either be in control of it, or me run it and pass the money on to him, because "its his business after all

Her reckons he needs 70-80k to live on though, and the business cant sustain that for him, and a salary for me, assuming im giving up my day job to run DBs business.

Hed also keep pocketing the cash damn him. I know he would.

Look, you are still looking for solutions to something that simply isn't your problem

please stop

take independent legal advice and re-iterate that when you a) feel your self crumbling b) get the sob story from your family

Please don't get any further involved than you already are.

Your brother is not your responsibility. He has a mother and step-father who can support him emotionally and has access to NHS mental health services.

I do understand - I was faced with a situation with my brother recently and felt all the long-buried, childhood insecurities come flooding back.

Your own family is your responsibility.

He needs to take responsibility for his how own actions by facing up to his debt and failing business problems. If that means becoming bankrupt, then so be it. Simply bailing him out again will not do anything apart from getting you into further debt. Acting as his accountant will simply increase your workload and tighten the unhealthy bonds between you, and adversely affect your own emotional resilience.

If his wife and her family have lots of money-let them bail your step-brother out.

Honestly, I am gobsmacked his mum is even involving you in this one after what happened last time. I would not attend the meeting and explain that you are already owed £150,000 by this brother (I presume his mum knows this?) which he hasn't paid back yet. Are you really considering selling land to help him?!

If you help him out, you will probably never see the money again, you will regret it and feel used and resentful for years to come. The best thing for him would be to declare himself bankrupt-he might grow up a bit and see that he can't be bailed out by his little sister for ever more. Do you really want to spend your hard-earned money on someone like this? He might then get back with his moneygrabbing wife and live in luxury on your ££!

Please you really cannot help this man.

He let you get to having the roof over your head taken away when you were pregnant because he is an entitled twat. You should feel not guilt towards saying no in the slightest.

You and your children would end up homeless supporting this man and he would not blink and eyelid or give you a penny (of your own money) to help you and you know this.

You are spot on if he had bought out your dad's house your dad would be on the street because it would have been repossessed or he would have forced him out!

Can you print off or write down some of our responses that sound good to you so that you can remind yourself of teh when you need to be stronger?xx wishing you all the best to stay out of it this time.xx

OP-you have to say no & that´s it!

Is it just me who would be tempted to say to his ILs "can you just lend DB a quick 50 grand-I would but I´m still waiting on the 150K that he owes me"

WHY should anyone bail him out again - he has shit on you before and you know he will do it again - and DO let his darling wifes family know all about it - she has contributed tothe situation

You should look after yourself and your own family unit and keep him well away from your Dad as you know where that will leed.

Let him go bankrupt and suffer the consequences

and good luck to you as family situations like this are awful ( have had very similar situation in my family and they will not be happy until my father has nothing left )

My gob is well and truly smacked.

How can you be so stupid? I don't understand? Why would you get involved at all?

This grown man is more important to you than the roof over your kid's head? What does he need to take from you before you figure out how he actually views you?

Fuck me, I just don't get it, you say you are an accountant? But you don't seem to be able to add up very well!

fallen, I really feel for you, don't take this the wrong way :) but - the only person backing you into a corner is yourself!

STOP!

Look at your list! Your mother 'just wouldn't' and his wife's family 'can't know on her orders'. How about you just add yourself to the can't list? Look, it's easy:

Cannots:
DB (bad credit surprisingly not)
DBs wife(bad credit)
DBs wife family (apparently they are not allowed to know the situation, and must at all costs not know about the financial / practical and emotional difficulties at all costs, on DBs wifes orders)
DBs mum (bad credit)
DBs stepdad (on pension)
Dad (pension)
My mum (just wouldnt)
Me (already 150K in debt to DB after last time, has young family to consider)

Don't you see? You're MAKING this your problem, and they sense this, that's why they're homing in on you. You're the softest touch, nothing more. Aren't his wife's parents more fucking responsible for THEIR DAUGHTER'S spendthrift mess than you? Why is the fact that your mum 'just wouldn't', for no reason (other than good sense!) enough to put her safely on the 'cannot' list, yet no matter how disastrous a move this would be for you, you remain firmly at the end of the line where the buck stops ??

The only person who can remove you from the Can list and put you on the Cannot is you.

You MUST do this, because it's not just you who stands to fall - it's your children and family. For their sake you're going to have to say NO (and feel guilty). I'm glad to hear about the therapy - somewhere along the line someone's done a bit of a number on you with regard to the old guilt, and your absolute horror of a brother is doing all he can to exploit it.

Oh and your last post. I'm glad to see at least you're aware of that, it's clear to everyone on here from the story you've posted.

Yes, he'd keep pocketing the cash. Because he's a rotter, and because he's been led to believe that he can, because someone will always always bail him out. Your kids deserve more than to see their mum throwing their security away for an uncle who'd clearly kick them out of the way to get to a stray tenner on the kerb!

Why is this YOUR problem?? I know he is your brother and you feel upset for him and worried but really you have already done your bit!! You were enormously kind to let him secure his loan on your house and it has landed you with a colossal debt. Let someone else bail him out this time if that is what they want to do (although imo no one should be giving him any more money - it is not going to help the situ in any way). Just repeat - I have already done my bit, now it is someone elses turn. You have your own family to think of now.

*Suggestion 1. I have a parcel of land which I know a builder would purchase to develop, so option is that I sell my plot of land, give the money to DB, and then his mum/DB will pay me a monthly sum up and until the value is met (including interest), so Ive not lost out as such.

Suggestion 2. DB IVAs and we as a family help him with the payments and also with the running of his business, I as an accountant seem to have been signed up for the massive brunt of this. Set up budgets/monitor expenditure/blah blah blah. However I know my brother and he wont pay any attention to me saying no, so i think it wont work*

I've just read your OP again and can see there are two suggestions. Who has made these? They seem to involve either you doing lots of work, or you shelling out lots of money!?

When is he going to learn to shoulder his responsibility??

yy

Suggestion 4. His wife fesses up to her parents and asks for some of her inheritence early

Suggestion 5. He sells this so-called profitable business to someone with better sense than him and hopes that this person will keep him on as an employee (not likely)

Suggestion 6. He goes bankrupt, puts this sorry mess behind him, takes stock of his life so far and whatever steps he needs to make himself mentally fit for a better future.

OP, please listen to ShoutyHamster's wise and excellent words.

I have a question: you said that the previous loan to your brother came with a whole host of reservations and conditions - did he adhere to these generally?

where does responsibility to family stop?

Err, when he didn't even both to tell you had defaulted on the loan, whether he way burying his head in the sand or not.

You have done WAY too much for him already. And do not take on his business for him, you say he would refuse to hand it over for you to run and make profit etc. or listen to you in any way. Then that is not a workable ion is it? Therefore, you are on the 'can't' list too. He needs to go bankrupt as he clearly doesn't accept any kind of responsibility.

They sound like users. They wouldn't get a penny from me.

You lend the money, a year later they'll be asking you for more.

where does responsibility to family stop?

IMO when you yourself need help. DB is in trouble again but what about the debt you are in because3 of him. Why isnt anyone sticking their necks out for you?