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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to tell my brother to stick himself?

578 replies

fallenninja · 28/06/2011 07:45

OK so brief background. about 10 years ago my DB got himself into a quite sticky financial mess. He had what should have been a very profitable business but he kept "borrowing" money to fund his and his DWs lifestyle. Cue massive debts, and verge of bankruptcy.

I very luckily had a house with a fair whack of equity in it, due to inheritance / buying cheaply when my parents divorced. With a whole host of conditions and reservations and following massive conversations I agreed for DB to raise a loan secured on my house (idiot) in order for him to sort this out. This was for £150k (i know even bigger idiot). Arrangement was simple. DB repaid the loan, over the 20years that it was for. DB didnt. Massive family falling out. I ended up remortgaing and obviously am now and will be forever paying the stupid loan off.

Over the last 5 years or so we seem to have repaired the family rift, and whilst it still galls me, I suppose in some ways ive let it go.

So now ...
DB yet again has got himself in a mess, there is to be a family meeting tonight to dicuss how to help him. Hes in a deep depression, his wife has left him (money issues - he can no longer keep her to the style she expects) and he obviously is in debt again. He tried to commit sucide last weekend.

Now obviously i am concerned about him, I love him, and dont want anything terrible to happen to him, but i have no interest in helping him financially or in any big commited way, which is where the disagreement is coming in.

Suggestion 1. I have a parcel of land which I know a builder would purchase to develop, so option is that I sell my plot of land, give the money to DB, and then his mum/DB will pay me a monthly sum up and until the value is met (including interest), so Ive not lost out as such.

Suggestion 2. DB IVAs and we as a family help him with the payments and also with the running of his business, I as an accountant seem to have been signed up for the massive brunt of this. Set up budgets/monitor expenditure/blah blah blah. However I know my brother and he wont pay any attention to me saying no, so i think it wont work

However if he did do something stupidly stupid because I didnt help i would struggle to forgive myself, but this is how i got guilted persuaded to help last time

So AIBU to say get lost? Or is DBs mum in asking me to consider this?

(Im off on the school run then popping to town, so shall return at lunch for the verdict)

OP posts:
TandB · 06/07/2011 21:21

You are doing really well under immense pressure. Definitely pursue the counselling option - you need someone on your side, emotionally I mean, through all of this.

Just hold on to the fact that DB's mother is showing her true colours more and more the longer this goes on and ultimately that should make it easier for you to move on from this. There can be no doubt about the way she at least views you in all of this - as a source of funding, not as a valued member of her family. You don't need her approval - it is worth nothing.

If you can get a message of support to your brother, that might make you feel better.

PrettyMeerkat · 06/07/2011 21:45

Does she go to work or a club or something? If you know when she's likely to be out you could call then.

ShoutyHamster · 07/07/2011 10:44

Oh ninja I'm so sorry it's such a mare for you at the moment. Sending you good vibes :)

Ideas here are good.

Head down. No contact with P. Just hold your ground. Did you send that email in the end?

Letter to bro if it'll make you feel better. She may read it, but as long as you use that to reiterate that money is NOT the answer and you aren't going to prop up his 'addictions' - it may actually help if she reads that.

Concentrate on your court case. I can only assume that making a malicious accusation can only harm your awful sounding Ex, so hurrah if so. He hasn't seen the children for several MONTHS but comes out with this? Make sure the malicious nature of the complaint is recorded, help your case all you can.

Oh and yes you continue to do the right thing. Would it make it easier to just see this as another of the difficult things you HAVE to do when you have kids? It's for them you're going through this - so it is worth it all.

RottenTiming · 07/07/2011 11:18

ninja

It's worth repeating here and maybe a mantra for you to repeat in your mind.

"I'm not making funds available to DB at this time because I love him and it's the only way for him to have a chance to get his life sorted once and for all"

Consider the possibility of mental relief for him once he doesn't have to hide the family finance situation from his wife's family.

RottenTiming · 07/07/2011 11:24

Plus P orcestrated that tearful phone call from your DB to increase the emotional pressure on you.

If you have the rotten luck to come into contact with her again, play her at her own game, ramble, witter, gibber, don't make sense, act as if the emotional pressure coupled with the stresses and strains of your own situation regarding ex h and ds has temporarily rendered you not capable of making sense or sound decisions. Say that you are on medication and your counsellor/GP and solicitor have advised you very strongly to take no important decisions/irreversible actions at this time until you are out of the woods yourself.

Lancelottie · 07/07/2011 11:36

Brilliant, Rotten!

But Ninja's still going to find it tough because she's lovely and wants to leave no stone unturned to help her brother. So, at the risk of repeating everyone else: money won't save him. More money will just leave him in the same position all over again.

RottenTiming · 07/07/2011 11:52

Ninja

As Lancelottie says you do sound so lovely to have already massively shared your resources with DP in the past.

You know surely, that any financial help now will be wasted, sucked into a black hole and (totally) unintentionally cruelly causing a delay and possibly therefore an increase in the mental effect of the inevitable financial meltdown of his life. Consider how worthless he may feel once he realises there is no way you will get anything back in respect of this second loan. You are helping him by not putting him in that position.

Once he has hit rock bottom and is on the way back up (possibly post bankruptcy) however, you could then assist him in a suitable fashion and it is less likely to be wasted if he learns from the experience of going under financially and the majority of people do learn because thay have to due to lack of credit etc.

Don't think of it as not helping, think of it as targetting your help to be the most effective. You will help him at the right time but now is not the right time whatever P may think.

vicks71 · 07/07/2011 12:16

Ninja - I'm not going to repeat what everyone else has already said - except to agree that you are doing AMAZINGLY well.

Just one thing (and maybe I'm trying to see the best in people here!) - does your brother's mum (and your brother for that matter) actually understand that the effect of the loan that he took out against your house is that you are having to pay an extra £700 per month? I just find it staggering that they would even be thinking of trying to get you to offer up any further financial support if they had really grasped that cold hard fact. I know that they know it was a loan that was taken out (well it was him that took it out!) rather than being a spare £150,000 that you had hanging around - but I just wondered if they had ever actually known or appreciated the actual repayment figures involved. I just can't see how anyone in their right mind would expect you to shell out any more when you are already paying more than double your original mortgage payments as a result of helping him in the past. If they don't know what this costs you monthly or could have (conveniently!) forgotten - then next time you speak to her, I'd stress this point if I were you. It might get her off your back. If she is fully appraised of this fact then she's truly operating outside all realms of logic!

I'm so sorry that you are having to contend with all the extra hassle with your ex-h - that's the last thing that you need. I hope you are getting the emotional support that you need. My heart goes out to you. I haven't posted on MN for a year or so (just lurked) but felt compelled to comment on this thread.

Surely if you said to DB's mum that you haven't washed your hands of him and you want to help in supporting him emotionally but that you CAN'T offer anything more financially, then any rational person would understand. It sounds though, from what you have said, that she isn't the most rational of people.

plupervert · 07/07/2011 17:28

I wonder if it would help you to see another person's rather similar situation from outside. This poster is also being cheated by a family member, and also feels paralysed by guilt.

If you are shocked that she would consider not pursuing this, it could help you realise how dangerous your emotional involvement in your own situation is. You see how dangerous guilt can be to the financial interests of children?

MinnieBar · 12/07/2011 12:28

How's it going this week Ninja??

SilverSky · 12/07/2011 12:37

Are you still incommunicado with P? Hope you are.

warthog · 13/07/2011 08:15

how are you ninja?

RalphGnu · 13/07/2011 08:23

Hey Ninja, just wanted to find out how you are and let you know how lucky your family is to have you in their lives Smile

gapants · 13/07/2011 20:45

op just wondered how you were doing? Any developments. I hope no news is good news.

bumpsoon · 13/07/2011 21:12

Do not lend your brother any money . He does not need money . What he needs is help with his mental health (see GP) and to learn a lesson . If he learns the lesson he will stop getting into a mess and may even end up repaying you some of the money he owes . If i were you i would sell the parcel of land and use the funds to pay off some of your mortgage , dont tell your brother you have done this though . Go to the family meeting and act dumb , litter the conversation with lots of ' i really dont see any way out of this mess ' , ' i dont know how i can help being in so much debt myself ', 'going bankcrupt might be the best option'.

plupervert · 13/07/2011 21:32

I'm laughing at ninja's threatening to go bankrupt, bumpsoon. That would freak DB's mother out completely!

Jux · 15/07/2011 08:51

How're you doing, Ninja?

echt · 15/07/2011 09:39

.

RandomMess · 18/07/2011 18:12

Hoping you are okay, still can't get over how self-entitled P is!

needanewname · 18/07/2011 19:22

Hey Ninja, how are you?

SilverSky · 21/07/2011 19:13

ninja really hoping you are ok. Please drop in.

lady007pink · 26/07/2011 05:56

Bumping to check things are OK with you, OP.

RosieMapleLeaf · 26/07/2011 14:22

Was just thinking of you this morning ninja and coming to bump the thread myself! Hoping everything is OK in your world!

Teachermumof3 · 01/08/2011 19:46

Would the OP give us an update-I'd love to know how things are going?

SugarPasteFrog · 01/08/2011 22:01

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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