Children who are deemed 'fussy eaters' seem to have no problem hoofing down sugary and fatty foods!

[pingu2209]

I have at least 4 friends whose children are deemed 'fussy eaters'. Whenever they come to play and have a meal with us, the parents/mothers always apologise in advance, during and after at how their children 'eat nothing' and are 'really fussy'.

My house rules are if you don't like something, fine then leave it. However, you don't get a pudding if you don't eat your main meal.

ALL of the so called fussy eaters are given chocolate biscuits or cake or crisps as soon as they get home, then refuse to eat their dinners but their parents allow them a sugary/fatty pudding anyway.

Is the reality that there are no fussy eaters, just parents that let their children develop a taste for junk food and allow them to get away with eating nothing but junk food?

superv1xen - how very childish of you. And vindictive too. Bet that child loves coming to your house. Great message you're giving your dc too.

And bless you GingerWrath, if only it was so easy. What would you do if you gave your dd the mouthful she had to swallow, and she found swallowing so disgusting that she threw up everything she'd already eaten? Or what if she didn't dutifully swallow the one mouthful but chose not to eat anything at all for the next 30 hours instead?

So many people with average-eaters put in a small amount of effort - of the kind GingerWrath describes - and it works, so they pride themselves on their wonderful parenting and judge anyone with a more difficult child.

The people here who are agreeing with the OP really, truly have no idea at all what it's like to have a child with Selective Eating Disorder (SED) (which from the descriptions I've read on these posts) follows the symptoms exactly.

For those who do know, there is help you can get.

A fabulous forum (as recommended to be by a MNetter) is www.fussyeaters.com and althougth the name suggests it's all about fussy eating, it's not. It's specifically for parents of children and teens, as well as adults who suffer from one of 5 (I think) eating disorders, including SED and has been a massive supportive help to me whilst working out what is wrong with DS (6).

When the top paediatric consultants at GOSH and other eating disorder clinics are telling the parents of these children to feed them what they will eat, even if it means filling up on high cals food that are not normally seens as healthy, then preachy mums on MN who haven't been faced with the stress of a child who won't eat, should have a re-think.

It's the phrases such as "send them to bed with nothing else", "you need to make them sit there until they've eaten 3 more mouthfuls" and "you can't have anything else to eat unless you eat that" that makes life for these children worse.

So how do you identify a 'genuine eating issue'?

Imagine being given a huge pile of locusts to eat (perfectly acceptable source of protein in some parts of the world), and being told that you will sit there until you at leat try them and that there will be nothing else to eat instead.

Imagine that milk makes you feel sick, really really sick, and being told that you must drink half a pint before you go out to play (this happened to me regularly throughout childhood).

I'm actually a bit shocked by a few of the posts on this thread. Some of the behaviour towards children seems very cruel to me.

I am just saying for those without underlying issues(medical or whatever), if you don't make a big deal of it then it isn't a big deal.

I used myself and my DSIS as examples, both of our children are average kids but due to different approaches one eats well (although I would like her to eat more) and DN has serious food issues and has been on calcium suppliments since she was 2. DSIS made a huge issue over it and eventually it BECAME an issue. I am more laid back and when DD did go through fussy phases I didn't let food become a battle.

PrettyMeerkat, it's so good to hear you say that the issues with food related to reflux got better. I've just been reading this thread almost in tears at work wondering what DD1's nursery staff must think of what I send in to nursery with her.

Perhaps they think I'm lazy or spoiling her like some of the pp here. Perhaps they assume that when she turns her nose up at snack time it's because I indulge her every whim. Perhaps they see the same items in her lunchbox every day and comment to each other that I need to make more effort. But, having thought about it properly, I doubt they do ... having seen so many children over the years I'm pretty sure the staff avoid the kind of judgemental crap that features in so much of this thread.

DD1 is almost 3 and still struggles with reflux. Any new texture makes her gag uncontrollably until she vomits. She was born growth restricted (5lb 1oz) and did not properly gain weight for quite some time (on or below the 0.4th centile for a while). It goes without saying that I care very much about what she eats. I also study child development (with an emphasis on eating pathology and obesity) for a living. I'm fully aware of how 'spoiled' DD1's diet must seem from the outside .

As far as savoury food goes, DD1 will eat pasta with a cheese or tomato sauce with veg chopped up finely. She will also eat cheese on toast or with crackers, simple quiches and pizza, fish and chicken goujons (aka nuggets . As a consequence, I make all her food - usually including bread - from scratch. I 'hide' veg in sauces, tinned tuna or finely minced beef under the cheese in pizzas. Luckily she's much better with fruit: raisins, bananas, any other dried fruit, smoothies etc, and eats yoghurts. While she'll never turn down a biscuit, she isn't often offered one.

My second DD2 eats absolutely anything. Parented in exactly the same way, offered the same foods in exactly the same kitchen no less. She wolfs down vegetables but can take or leave anything particularly sweet. It's fair to say that I have a lot more faith in the 'nature' side of the nature/nurture debate than before I had children.

It's the phrases such as "send them to bed with nothing else", "you need to make them sit there until they've eaten 3 more mouthfuls" and "you can't have anything else to eat unless you eat that" that makes life for these children worse.

Absolutely! And what is doesn't do is create a relaxed, confortable enviroment around meal times, heightening stress levels for the child which is immediately tapped into at the next meal time, before they have even approached the table. I have seen this with my own eyes (my own child) and it's awful.

For me, I want my children to enjoy food as they get older and this won't make that happen. It will if anything make the children anxious and feel desperately out of control. And where does control and food issues lead to? Eating disorders.

prettymeerkat, your post gives me lots of hope for the future of my ds2.

superv1xen, lovely way to treat guests in your house. Did nobody teach you that being a good host means putting your guests at ease? I'm betting your "friend" doesn't visit often.

playdoh yes it may be childish of me to enjoy it, but a) i don't show it, and b) she is a bloody rude kid. and just coz her mother indulges her picky tastes doesn't mean i will. my house, my rules. when i have spent time cooking a meal for someone only to have it wasted i think thats unacceptable unless there is a GENUINE reason ie illness or genuine food intolerances, allergies, SN etc. but there is clearly NOTHING like that wrong with my mates dd other than spoilt-brat-itis ;) (and there is clearly nothing wrong with my cooking if everyone else has eaten it is there.) if any of my dc behaved like that at someone else's house i'd be mortified.

and actually, it IS a good message i am giving my kids, to not waste food and not be be ungrateful. also i don't use pudding as a "reward" as such, i don't make my kids clear their plates if they don't want to, but they have to at least MAKE AN EFFORT. and in our house, puddings are usually fruit or yogurts.

i don't make a fuss about it, i just say, ok, you don't want it, fine, take your plates out then. but i do not ever offer anything else.

FrozenNorthPole Mine was tiny too, 4lb 10oz. We found out when she was 3 that she had a dairy intolerance but only after taking it completely out of her diet (even chocolate) for a couple of months.

I think the nursery are probably used to fussy children.

What I have done is to make sure she always has something on her plate that she likes (same with younger sibling who appear to be scared of food which is worrying) and so that takes away some of the stress. I still put on things they are not so keen on or have so far refused to try as I am aware that it takes them a while to get used to each new food. I then repeat that new food once or twice a week and eventually they might touch it, then maybe lick it or bite and spit out. It's all progress anyway. I am done with worrying about it! It doesn't get any of us anywhere!

My DD now has school dinners. I find that it has really helped to see other children eating the foods she wouldn't even touch. Peer pressure and all that.

Also OP - I think you'll find that if it were a case of parents giving their children junk food, it would be more usual to find that all the kids in the family ate like that but mostly, it's only 1 child who has issues.

But Ginger, what if the child is not having a 'fussy phase', but has always struggled with food? What if they, like thousands of adults out there, only like a restricted range of foods?

I'm not a big fan of people who post on threads that 'if you haven't experienced this issue, you'll never truly understand it' because, generally, everyone has something to offer to the debate. But as pps have said, it's really easy to sit back and judge unless you've had that horrible shock of finding you've got a fussy eater when you did everything 'right'.

Food is an intensely morally and emotionally charged thing, and it is rarely more so than in the context of providing nourishment to one's children (or indeed seeing other people provide nourishment to theirs). I frequently need to remind myself that my main aim is setting my DDs up with the best circumstances to have their own healthy relationships with food, and b*llocks to what anyone else thinks.

UnseenAcademicalMum Glad it helped

X-post - that's interesting, prettymeerkat: I remember reading up around reflux and there were definite links to being a very small baby with a less tight junction between oesophagus and stomach, and maybe with more gut immaturity (hence perhaps the dairy intolerance). I think one of the worst things about having a really tiny baby is the constant stream of people who comment e.g. "aaah, is mummy starving you?" "What she needs is a nice big bottle!" It's curious how suddenly, round about the age of 2 or 3, the emphasis of social approval shifts from having a nice fat baby to worrying that a child might be eating too much junk food and might be gaining too much weight.

I guess I am not putting my point across very well. I understand that there are kids out there that aren't just fussy and have genuine food issues.

I AM saying some children are made into 'fussy eaters' by their parents' own attitude to food.

DH and I are of the try anything once school of cooking/eating as opposed to my DSIS and BIL who are both incredibly fussy and will not try new foods. This has in turn projected onto my DN who has now got the same unhealthy attitude towards food that her parents have. And when DSIS moans she is worried about why DN isn't eating her tea I find it very hard to bite my tongue and tell her her DD is not hungry cause she just scoffed a cake and a sausage roll while they were shopping

I am not judging those who have children with genuine food issues, if I am judging anyone it is those who have turned their kids into fussy eaters whilst shovelling crap down their child's throat.

FrozenNorthPole Yeah I remember reading all that too. As for the comments, the worst one I got was "what's WRONG with her?!?!?!"

I was willing to try anything the hospital suggested after the 3 years of vomiting, but was still shocked when after going on the dairy free diet she never vomited again (well has done once in 2 years when had a tummy bug). It completely cured her! After about 3 months we put her back on dairy and she has been fine ever since. All that her stomach needed was a break from the dairy to heal I guess. I don't know, I just know it worked!

Supervixen, you have the great good fortune to have children who eat well. You obviously think that you have been solely responsible for creating this, which may be true to a certain extent, but I would contend that your work has only paid off because you haven't happened to have a properly selective eater. And when you get your way with your friend's children, its easy for you, because you only have to deal with that situation occasionally - imagine dealing with the food related meltdowns at every meal, like I have to.

My children go to bed, easily, every night at 7pm, they don't get back out of bed and they sleep through until 7am. That doesn't mean I am smug about it, or that I feel I can judge my friends who have difficult sleepers (but perfect eaters....) I just realize that everyone has a problem somewhere, and I bet your children aren't perfect either.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.....

GingerWrath I think I understand some of what you are getting at. I think its important to give your children a good attitude to food (without pressure though) and is also important not to let your children see your own food issues. If you only ever want to eat ready meals for eg, then fine, just don't share meal times with your child and serve them better food. Or if you won't eat veg, then you have to force yourself or find another solution that doesn't involve letting your child see you not eating your veg every day.

The thing is though, even with my oldest having physical problems regarding food, I tried very hard not to let any of the issues rub off on her younger brother and have done all the right things with him. He is though very reluctant to try new foods and I just don't understand it. We all eat well in my house (we love food) but he is seemingly scared of new foods and won't pick them up or put them in his mouth. Partly this is normal for a toddler of course, it's just a bit extreme! Hoping he will just grow out of it [fingers crossed emoticon]

Exactly PrettyMeercat that is what I mean, food 'issues' can be learned behaviour, I loathe tomatoes, I just make sure when I dish up I don't put any on my plate, DD none the wiser and eats hers. If I made a big deal 'Ewwww yuck, I hate tomatoes, I am going to throw this whole plate of food away incase the rest of it has been contaminated by the tomatoes', how long would it take for DD to suddenly hate tomatoes too?

I think it's a complicated thing and there is no one answer. Sometimes there are physical problems, sometimes it's just a stage, sometimes it's learnt and sometimes it can be that the parent is uneducated in these matters (remember being told that a parent thought there was meat in meat flavoured crisps and so thought the child was getting protein from that!). I don't think they can all be lumped together.

My DS doesnt have any ishoos, neither did I as a child. I just dont see it as a big deal that he doesnt want to eat much now. He will grow out of it, just like i did. Pushing it makes him eat nothing, just like it did me.

I was hospitalised thanks to my moms HV. When she carried me to the centre at four years old pale and gaunt, barely responsive, they told her Id crack soon! that Afternoon she took me to AnE who admitted me for a week and fed intravenously. It has also caused me problems to this day with my kidneys and liver....they were shutting down, they will never work fully again. my mom bless her never made an issue of my eating, other than following the HV advice once, the rest of the time she tried a million senarios to get me to eat something, but never showed how stressed she was, she was a star really. I only drank milk, and only ate fried egg whites and wotsits until i was four and a half.

Im not willing to risk this episode with my own children. Before and after for me i was still a lively fighting fit child. Just like my DS who will eat a 1 bowl of cornflakes and a few glasses of milk for days and days in a row. He has had times when he just wont eat anything. He still drinks though thank god so havent had to have an overnight stay so far. I guess I am just pandering to him, or let me guess, my own experience has clouded the issue, worst parent in the world over here folkes.....but then again my DD, who sits with my ds with the same meals offered to both will hoover up anything in front of her (and his too)...so hang on, that makes me the best mother in the world doesnt it???

[confused as fuck BabyDubs!]

And for supervixen: once you have prepared the meal and put it in front of your poor little guest, if she eats it, its gone, if she doesnt, it goes in the bin....what difference does it make to you...its already been made, its no good to you now whether she eats it or not....so why do you care?, send it home with to put in her own bin if it bothers you that much.

I think as long as parents don't give their children alternative rubbish food when they won't eat what is put in front of them, then fine. It is when parents offer 'nicer' alternatives to what the rest of the family is eating, that problems arise. DP has huge eating problems, as does his brother. Odd that.

Were there many fussy eaters during the rationing do you think? Or in third world countries?
If you have a genuinely fussy eater, that does not mean you need to introduce junk food into the diet.
Wonder if Jamie Oliver would allow his kids to live off a diet of chicken nuggets and chips if they decided they didnt like his cooking?

They must of eaten different things at some point after all their not weaned on pizza and wotsits are they, im surprised my fussy eater children haven't starved because there is no way when they are deciding what food they don't like this week would I say ok have some nuggets or a pizza and crisps instead