To wonder if muslims judge non-muslim women who do not cover their heads?

[WinterSnow]

Obviously I only mean muslims who cover their head themselves, I realise some muslims do not agree with the practice.

I am curious to know whether as a non-muslim woman who doens't cover her head I would be judged?

The Koran doesn't actually specify that hair has to be covered. The actual quote is;
"Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and guard their chastity; that is purer for them. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to make a display of their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast a cover over their bosoms... (Koran 24: 30-31)."
'Beauty' has been interpreted to include hair too which is why the adoption of the hijab has been pushed.

im not a home so i cant find my quran but i know it asks you to cover up all execept for your hands and face.

no, the word you use as cover, what is it in arabic and what is the meanin in arabic?

also there is the verse O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): That is most convenient, that they may be distinguished and not be harassed

in arabic that is Ya ayyuha alnnabiyyuqul li-azwajika wabanatika wanisa-ialmu/mineena yudneena AAalayhinna min jalabeebihinna thalikaadna an yuAArafna fala yu/thayna

you can clearly see the word jalabeeb, which is the plural of jilbaab.

and you have to take it in the cultural context as well,
if i ask a sweedish person to put their scarf on they will put somethin around their neck,

if i ask a british pakistani they would put somethin on their head, so you cant take a word out of context of its cultural meanin and interpret it to your own desires althouh all scholars and reliious roups, knowledable people etc are in areement on this issues.

their are many areas of disareement in islam which are valid and all opinions equally valid, but this is not one.

something that is common to islam and christinaity is the requirement to cover your hair when you pray, also neither are allowed to eat pork-how many christians do you know that eat pork lol!

I agree with nailak, the trouble is translation much of the time. does jilbaab predate islam though?

i cant imagine that the social requirments of a place wouldnt have effect rules...

No, actually, Quran says to cover your bosom with your headscarf. So yes, hair and bosom need to be coved, but it doesn't say anything about arms, hands, lower legs etc. It does say to dress modestly, so you probably shouldn't be going out in mini skirts and shorts, though.

Iirc, there are only two verses in the Quran that give instructions on this subject:

24:31 - And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts and not expose their adornment unnecessarily and to extend their headcovers over their bosoms and not expose their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, their brothers' sons, their sisters' sons, their women, that which their right hands possess, or those male attendants having no physical desire, or children who are not yet aware of the private aspects of women. And let them not stamp their feet to make known what they conceal of their adornment. And turn to Allah in repentance, all of you, O believers, that you might succeed.

33:59 O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

cote, what about the verse i posted tellin the believin women to wear jilbaab?

and the verse you referrin to is this ^And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their khimar over their bosoms

now tell me what is khimar? khimar is a head coverin, you cant make your own rulins from enlish translation of Quran with no consideration to context and arabic meanin etc.

as for the skinny jeans hijabis, i do notice them and i aree this is not proper hijab, but like i said many people o throuh staes when comin to wearin hijab, who am i to jude? this miht be their first step, i know sisters who used to wear scarf and short sleeves and after a few years wear jilbbab etc so its just all part of the phases i was talkin about.

like i said before only Allah knows what is in their hearts.

we have a sayin in islam, "make 70 excuses for your brothers and sisters" aain we can see the meanin is dont jude badly, if you see someone doin somethin bad, focus on the valid reasons that they miht have and dont jump to the worst conclusion.

and to extend their headcovers over their bosoms and not expose their adornment

This does not make clear either how the headcovering should look (ie loose scarf a la Pakistan or hair only or hint of hair or full hijab)

Nor does it make clear that the headcover is the important bit. For all we know, women wore headcovers for purely practical reasons, and it's the 'draw it over your bosom' part that is the religiously observant element. That would fit with the way muslim women who don't cover ill still dress modestly and cover their cleavage...

I think there is debate to be had.

If women were covered from head to toe, then there would be no need for a 'lowering of the gaze'
Islam expects women to be educated and involved in society. How would rural women be expected to work wearing a veil?

The hijab is an item of clothing from the Arab culture pushed to reaffirm the identity of a Muslim woman and to make it obvious they don't want to identify with the West.

Random ill in there!

Nailak - I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying there, but the verse you posted is the second one I posted, talking about "outer garments".

It does not tell women to wear a jilbaab (cloak). It tells them to bring part of it over their bodies so they will not be harassed, assuming they already wear it outside, presumably because it was so bloody hot in the desert without a light fabric over one's head & back.

Even the meaning of "hijab" has changed over centuries. Now it refers to the headscarf, but It used to be a curtain that provides privacy - Quran tells men to talk to Mohammad's wives through a hijab.

but i do identify with the west? how can i not, how does a piece of clothin stop me identifyin with my home, my upbrinin, my country?

i couldnt stop identifyin with the west if i wanted to as i am culturally western, i just dont drink and wear a jilbab over my western clothes when i leave the house?

i dont identify with Arabs as im not an arab?

when the words khimaar and jilbaab are in Quran how can you say wearin these items are cultural?

why cant rural women not work wearin a veil? they already do in some "muslim" countries?

Eric, you are riht and this is why we have hadiths, and imams from the first and second enerations, such as imam Abu Hanifa (ra) who made rulins on these subjects from knowin how the sahabah followed these commands.

anyway the point is noone wants to be forced to do anythin. livin here allowed me to come to a point in my life when i felt i understood and had the need to wear hijab and then wear it.

cote i dont et it, why are all the scholars in areement on this issue if it is so unclear?

people covered their hair before islam came along, it was the norm and it isnt unusual to consider that people who were arabs who then became muslims continued this trend. thats not to say that this wasnt also prescribed by a particular religion, only that it existed before the faith became "islam".

Knittedbreat, i get mine from here

Both jewish and christian women covered their hair. Orthodox jews still do. In fact, the many of the ultra orthodox areas in jerusalme, women wear full hijab and veil too.

Personally i think what you wear is no one elses business but between you and God. But poeple of all sttipes and types judge. You see it on MN, long judgey threads over 'not making an effort' or wearing crocs or slobbing in your pyjamas down t Tesco.
The one that annoys me is peoples judging ober making an effort with your appearnce. Who the fuck cares and why is it their business!

Thank you Riven :) any advice on where to get nice abayas?

Quran clearly says that it is complete, fully detailed, perfect, and all you need to know. The rest is interpretation and hearsay. Fine, if you find guidance in hadiths and imams' interpretations, but they are not essential.

Depends on what ypu are after. Sunnah style in the US do beautiful ones. I have a few from there and get my niqabs from them.
Or you could come fetch me, take me to London and we will go the shop in Shephetds Bush and the one behind East London Mosque

Agree Cote. The quran itself says to read, interpret and keep searxhing for meaning. Which is what scholars do. And its also says to to judge so eone elses interpretation. One scholar said islam is a 40 lane highway all going innthe same direction.
In real life however, its like a bag of ferrets fighting and humans poking tneir noses in and judging by external appearnces. Heavy sigh.
I am going back to bed cos am el pukey

they are essential to me as i dont know arabic, and i dont know thins such as the circumstances of revelation etc.

anyway the point is differences of opinions etc are fine, i dont really care what other people wear. that is their freedom of choice.

i do however jude those who look down at me for my choice, espescially muslims and those who say thins such as "why are you talkin to non muslims about islam"

never stop talking about islam to non muslims, has anyone heard of the quran project? I know an amazing lady who has some really great ideas

Riven, id love to pick you up and go shopping! but i live in Berkshire furthest from London. we have no shops for abayas here really. i dont trust alot of these websites, i dont know where they are from or if they are safe.

I shall have a look at Sunnah style thanks :)

Riven - My understanding is that Quran and hence Islam was sent because Christianity went off the rails. The most important mistakes of Christianity after Jesus passed away being (1) veneration of Jesus Christ as God, and (2) establishment of Church between believers and God.

This is why Quran goes to great lengths to explain that (1) Mohammad shouldn't be worshipped and shouldn't even have a picture or sculpture so that nobody can venerate these objects, and (2) there should be nobody between a Muslim and God, everyone needs to read the Quran, understand and interpret it, and establish a direct relationship with God.

Sounds about right Cote