To wonder if muslims judge non-muslim women who do not cover their heads?

[WinterSnow]

Obviously I only mean muslims who cover their head themselves, I realise some muslims do not agree with the practice.

I am curious to know whether as a non-muslim woman who doens't cover her head I would be judged?

There were a couple of comments up the thread about bare shoulders not really being accepted. I must admit, I always thought that Muslim women, even those that didn't cover their heads would avoid bare shoulders (as do many Asian women generally and Orthodox Christians in mediteranean countries).

If that is the case - what's going on with Zainab's outfit in Eastenders tonight. She is supposed to be a strict muslim (although without head coverings) and is wearing a sleeveless top / outfit (Kalwar Shameez?).

Is this acceptable in Islam or bad research on the part of the BBC?

No, i don't think so.

Suppose the OP had said "Could those who know the cultural and religious rules of Islam tell me if in their opinion and experience the rules and customs would tend to make it likely for significant numbers of Muslim women to disapprove of non-muslim women not covering their faces."

Maybe MN could employ and make available a legal expert who could help word simple questions so as to satisfy the mob easily upset.

Because it sounds like a perfectly reasonable question to me. For all a non-muslim might know it might be spelt out somewhere that muslims should not expect it from non-muslims. How you supposed to know if you don't ask?

I thought we were meant to take an interest? Or do those who immediately got upset feel that being muslim is an embarrassing illness that we shouldn't mention?

Actually Onager you have a point, it is taught to us to actually mind our own business, the exact wording being (rough translation) 'To you be your religion and to me be my religion'.
It's a live and let live thing, you don't follow our religion and you are most certainly not expected to follow the dress code!

I've grown up around people with all sorts of ideas of what is good dress sense, it's never ocurred to me to judge them.

Personally the hijab and abaya is only outer wear to me, it's what I throw on before leaving the house, it's not something I spend a long time agonising over, well no more than I do on footwear, everything has to co-ordinate (but thats me), however hand on heart I can honestly say I do not agonise over other peoples dress choices....altho I have been known to ask perfect strangers ocassionally where they got their shoes, or dress from (sometimes one just absolutely has to know), other than that other peoples sartorial choices are really not my business. I think on the whole Most Mners spend more time judging others than I and my muslim friends do (going by the threads on here)!

Most Muslims do not judge non-Muslims about dress but they may judge other Muslims.

Why do people think all Muslims are the same?
I am Muslim. I have lots of friends who are Muslims and none of us cover our hair or have any desire to do so. We actually don't agree with it all but thats a different thread.

Not all Muslims are the same. Why is that so hard to understand?

I know Muslims are not a homogenous group but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a certain amount of shared beliefs within a specific religion!

I have no idea but am almost certain the answer is yes. Aren't all grannies judgemental? You can always count on grannies to disapprove of something the youngun's do.

i think it is a reasonable question and am glad the op asked instead of jumping to her own conclusions as people seem to do on here,

there is a hadith which says something along the lines of : " you may think someone is from the people of paradise, when really they are from the people of fire, and you may think someone is from the people of the fire, when really they are from the people of paradise"

the meaning is clear; you cannot judge from outward appearances, and you do not know what is in anyone elses heart, even if someone seems very pious, fasting praying, always in the mosque, they may be doing unseen sins, such as backbiting, interest, or oppression, or may hold unclean thoughts etc

As a muslim i know i wasnt born wearing hijab, and none of the muslims i know were either, so we all had to come to our own conscious choice, at the time we had our own personal realisation and understanding to wear or refrain from wearing hijab/abayah/niqaab many people i know have been through multiple phases and combinations, before finding whats comfortable for them, and fits in with their own personal beliefs and interpretation of the deen.

knowing that, it would be very hypocritical of me to judge others who didnt wear hijab/abaya/niqaab as i didnt do it straight away myself.

I would however add that i would judge those who claim to be muslim but deny the clear laws of Allah.

I know i am not perfect and i sin, to sin is to be weak and human,it is our nature, but i wouldnt try and justify my sins according to my own desires.

by this i mean those muslim women and men who look down upon those who wear hijab as backwards etc

I was quite interested to hear a young muslim girl saying, on a documentary recently, that she feels sorry for non muslim women who don't cover up. In that we have all the fashion nonsense to feel insecure about and pressure on young girls to look a certain way etc. She said she felt glad to be out of all that.

Great post nailak. I am muslim and very happily wear hijab but I don't judge muslims or non muslims who do not cover, it had'nt even occured to me that anyone might think I do just because I do cover myself.

paisley that is a valid point, there are muslim women that cover that have been previously living a normal life of clubbing, short skirts etc, that feel sorry for those who have to deal with those expectations on a daily basis and feel society has brainwashed them in to thinking about their image constantly, and judgin them for their image rather then their inner self.

Yes, that was it. She saw these girls as victims (of sexism/fashion etc), which I thought was an interesting twist on westerners feeling sorry for women who cover up, as if they're the downtrodden ones.

There are also loads of Muslim girls who use the hijab as part of their image. They wear trendy and tight clothes, lots of make up and a hijab with a particular label. They are also thinking of their image.

Its not as straightforward as it seems.

I'm not generalising, just pointing out that there are all sorts of Muslims.

Nailak....Have you not noticed the covered women caked in make up or wearing the tightest jeans with the most porn style shoes? I'm not sure the wearing of an out moded uniform to protect men from lust is really something that takes away the vanity or insecurity that comes from being human.....

And you yourself have already decided that one self identifying Muslim can't be a Muslim.....I hope you adhere to every word of Allah (although didn't notice your obligatory pbuh oh whatever you're suppose to write) or you're not a Muslim either.

That is an interesting point nailak.

A few years ago I had a covered Muslim woman in one of my seminars and we were reading early nineteenth-century (British) material about female modesty, covering up, etc. She was making the point that 'modesty' in fact gave her space to be herself, personal space if you like, because it meant people's gazes weren't always trained on her. It was an eye-opener for the white non-Muslim girls, I think!

riven sorry this was ages ago but thanks for answering!! What do you say when people tell you to 'go home'? 'Er, thanks, I am, it's 3 doors away'?!

Weirdos!

Why is this an issue? Non muslim women can also 'cover' if we wish. You don't have to be a muslim to wear something on your head [a headscarf, a baseball hat, a wooly hat] or to wear long sleeves or a polo neck. It's not as if all non muslim women only dress in mini skirts and low cut tops.

When I lived in Saudi? yes sure I was considered different as a non-muslim and felt conspicious. In Qatar? Not at all, some of my Muslim friends wear a full veil, some cover their hair. I work in a department where I am the only westerner and a woman and blonde. To be honest, I really don't think anyone notices that I am different. In a country where there are so many cultures and religions living together (as should be in the UK) people automatically look beyond it. Non-professionally, I do occassionaly get stopped in town by old school North African Muslim men who seen to expect me to want to jump in their cars. If they hassle me, I call the Police and give them the licence plate and they deal with them. I have to admit I do wear an Abaya a lot of the time now but not as a religious statement and do not cover my hair as some would see a non-Muslim woman doing that as Haram.

Actually Crapola the pbuh follows Mohammed (pbuh)'s name not Allah.

I live in the middle east (non muslim) and whilst many here wear abayas and shaylas the emphasis is very much on hijab in its other meaning. As well as referring to the headscarf, hijab also refers to the way you dress and applies to men and women. Clothing should be loose and not emphasise your "sexual parts" so loose around the boobs and fanjos for woman and no crotch bump trousers for men. So it always confuses me to see women in tight t-shirts and jeans but yet covering their hair... bit of a contradiction to say the least! I do find it interesting that there is very little awareness that the Qu'ran also covers how men should dress and that many muslim men conform to this just as much as the women.

It is ridiculous to assume that all Western women or uncovered women are subjected to sexual advances and judgement anymore than a Muslim woman. Surely this covering magnifies the sexual element because hair is taboo?

Exactly Crapola. As well as wearing skinny jeans and tight tops, I've seen girls wearing mini skirts, leggings and a hijab. Personally, I don't care what people wear but dressing like that does seem at odds with what they're signifying doing by wearing the hijab.

Like Nailak implied herself, other Muslims might judge me for NOT wearing the hijab even though I think I dress very modestly.

Sorry that was in response to your earlier post, Crapola.

some women will judge other women, but thats not a religious group thing. its just a human thing.

I have to say when i wear the hijab i feel more beautiful than ever and it is lovely to experience the kind of respect you get fro men, not just muslim men but non muslim men too.

To Riven and any other muslim ladies on here, do you know any good websites that are safe to order hijabs and abayas from? the couple i have found are based in saudi and im a bit iffy to put my card details to their companies...

I had 2 muslim friends I met at uni who were adamant the covering was not to do with Islam, but to do with culture, and they didn't have to do it at all. Can anyone tell me if this is true in their understanding of Islam? Interestingly, now we are all nearly 30 and we are married, they all wear hijab (though not niqab). It is absolutely done through their own volition, but they were so vehement about it not being a part of their faith I've always wondered what prompted the turnaround. Is it a cultural expectation or has their faith deepened? Unfortunately, our friendship has dwindled since work/marriages/children, and I don't really feel like I know them well enough to ask anymore.

I read a book once about a closed Muslim country, (where you're not allowed to be another religion) and it said that a lot of people have satellite television and MTV and so used to watch Madonna videos. They saw a woman dressed up like a prostitute, covered in crosses. So they then assumed that all western women are all Christians, and Christians are all prostitutes. And if you live in a country where there are no "known Christians" and this is all you see of western culture, Madonna in "Like a Prayer" you might start seeing western women and/or Christians as being like Madonna.

Interesting but very sad, very wrong. It made me annoyed with Madonna. But then, it's not her fault. It's people looking at an entire people group from another part of the world and making completely wacky assumptions about them. Goes both ways, doesn't it?

the quran does require muslims women to cover their hair, however this is something that you do when its right for you inside-youl know when it happens.

before islam arrived the women living in tribal groups covered their hair aswell-make of this what you will. but it does say in the quran that you should cover your hair

Thank you KB