Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think teachers are taking the piss by striking?

207 replies

mdowdall · 15/06/2011 14:09

They get decent pay.
Even after pension reforms, their pensions will still be way better than the private sector.
They get great holidays.
They have reasonably good job security (again, compared with private sector)
Let?s face it, you could teach a monkey to teach. And yet these lazy bleeders have the audacity to go on strike? Meanwhile, in the real world, people continue to lose their jobs...

OP posts:
allegrageller · 16/06/2011 13:39

for what it's worth, I met around two people in my entire 6 years banking work who would appear to have been even vaguely worthy of the ludicrous salaries they were receiving. And really, in the end banking provides silly money for work that requires very little brain power and frankly not even charm. Exactly the accusations you and others were levelling at teaching, with no foundation whatever.

angelmouse75 · 18/06/2011 10:23

I have been a teacher for almost five years. I knew getting in that the hours would be long, the pay would be less than I was earning elsewhere and that there would be no 'perks'. However, the decision to become a teacher was mine and I wouldn't change it for the world - those that teach will recognise that total sense of accomplishment you feel when a struggling student finally makes sense of a topic and produces a brilliant piece of work, or a child with learning difficulties gets 20/20 on a spelling test because you've spent every break time with him for the last week doing extra work. It doesn't feel like a chore because, at that time, it's not, it's an absolute joy.

What I was never prepared for is the absolute vitriol that is spewed at me by non-teachers who see our lot as an easy one. To say that we have 30 children to look after is only a half-truth - yes, we may only have 30 to look after at any one time but this year, as a Secondary English teacher, I've taught 8 different classes across 5 different year groups, not including the pastoral care of my own Year 8 form. I start work at 8am and finish at 5.30pm, I work through my breaks running detentions and 'Curriculum Enrichment' clubs, I eat my sandwiches at my desk whilst marking (because I can no longer afford the school canteen that offers no subsidies and charges the teachers VAT on top of all food and drinks), I get home at 6.30pm so that I can spend a couple of hours with my own family and then, when the kids have gone to bed at 8.30pm, I begin the marking and planning that will take me through 'til about 1am. It's a hard slog and yes, I repeat, I CHOSE this.

What I didn't choose though was the torrent of verbal abuse from students when you dare to confiscate the phones they're playing with in class or the make-up they're plastering themselves with. Or the threats of physical abuse from students who don't like being told that they can't come into a restricted area. Or how about the verbal abuse form parents when you phone to tell them that their darling child has failed to do any work for the past week or perhaps the physical attacks from parents as you tell them that their child is being expelled for their own violence towards pupils and staff.

Most of the complaints I have heard so far about the forthcoming strike from non-teachers is how it will inconvenience them, how they'll have to take time off from work to look after their children - very little about the loss of education for the day. The union members care very much about pupil welfare, that's why they've chosen a date that's after the exams so pupils will suffer as little as possible. It's also why we've put up with budget cuts, redundancies, loss of authority and pay-freezes with no national strikes since 1986. As someone has already pointed out, ATL, the moderate union, has never called for strike action in its 127-year history.

The simple fact is, we were promised a good pension (one of the few upsides to this job) and now we're having it taken away. As a working parent the Government have already taken £450 a month away from me in Working Tax Credit while my childcare costs are still over a £1000 a month and now they want to take more money out of my salary so that I can work for longer but with less at the end of it.

Teaching is a vocation, and it's the one I chose. I shouldn't have to change that just to be guaranteed something I was promised in the first place.

allegrageller · 18/06/2011 11:00

teacher detractors should read angelmouse's post and take note. Why are we not hearing from people like her in the press and just the loony Daily Fail crap about 'cushy' public sector jobs? So often spouted by people already about to walk into their own far more cushy private sector pension arrangements and second or third homes.

alistron1 · 18/06/2011 16:59

Well said AngelMouse.

Hulababy · 18/06/2011 17:01

I know of schools with reduncancies for teachers too, esp in secondary.

exoticfruits · 18/06/2011 17:02

Excellent post angelmouse-agree 100%

drivemecrazy63 · 18/06/2011 17:09

brilliant post angelmouse75 I agree wholeheartedly, I just wish our servicemen's were also allowed to fight in their own corner and strike too.

Peachy · 18/06/2011 17:18

Harriet how can we evidence the redundancies witgout outing the schools where our children attend? Two at our 250 child primary is all I can offer.

When I was a student nurse we used to get long lectures from our course leaders on how important it was to retain a sense of ourselves as employees with rights and not just get stuck with some angel / state worker / can;t stick up for ourselves badge. I used to say I would enver strike and wonder why the emphasis. Now I understand.

mdowdall · 18/06/2011 17:29

angelmouse75 - you have taken martyrdom to new heights with your last post.
Consider the following:
Unions claim that the average Public Sector pension is just £4200.
What the unions don't tell you is that this figure excludes the highest earners.. but includes people who have worked for in a Public position for just a few months.
Private sector employees would need to build up a pension pot of £189,151 - equivalent to £6,300 each year for 30 years, to receive the average annual pension paid to civil servants.
Private sector workers would need to contribute 37% of their salary to their pension pot of their working lifetime to match the retirement income paid to a public sector on an equivalent wage.
My point being that the pensions being paid to public sector workers - including teachers - don't stack up. This isnt public sector worker-bashing. It is just blunt economics.

OP posts:
littlestressy · 18/06/2011 18:45

I do so love being compared to a monkey, thank you so much.

I came to teaching after working in the private sector, I have been a teacher for over 8 years now and I cannot think of a job I would rather do since I love teaching, watching children grow in knowledge and self esteem. However, I sacrifice a lot in order to give the most to my job. I work 8.00 - 6.00 pretty much every day (what's a lunch hour?), I work at the weekends, every weekend. Yes we do get good holidays but guess what, I also work in the holidays and when that holiday arrives I NEED IT.

Why shouldn't I be angry that the things we were promised are going to be taken away from us?

alistron1 · 18/06/2011 19:28

mdowall, I don't see angelmouse being a martyr. She's spelling out the realities of teaching. I said it earlier, in the 'boom' years I didn't see the private sector calling for the wages of teachers/nurses/police officers to rise, I didn't see the private sector calling for public sector workers to get bonuses.

If those in the private sector think that teaching is such a good deal then maybe they should do the training and do the job?

allegrageller · 18/06/2011 20:58

martyrdom my arse. Angelhouse is simply pointing out how utterly undervalued teaching is. Your 'raw economics' makes not a jot of difference to that. Tax the idle rich more and ban pointless wars to pay teachers according to the contracts of employment they signed? No problem for the sane.

I am so bored with teacher bashers and their two-bit arguments. Blah private sector pensions are crap too (agreed; that is an argument for better State provision). Blah Labour sent the country bankrupt (Cameron is spending more on his failure to tax the rich and corporations appropriately, loony plans for university loans and frankly out of character foreign aid plans). I've heard nothing except inarticulate jealousy and a pretence of 'pragmatism' (i.e. short termism) from teacher bashers and I suspect that they simply undervalue education because they were not able or willing to benefit from it themselves.

Realitystrikesback · 18/06/2011 21:00

What is it with all the right wing, teacher hating trolls tonight? Doesn't the conservative club bar open on a Saturday night?

allegrageller · 18/06/2011 21:07

Yeah I wish they'd piss off back to the Daily Fail mouth-foaming comment forums frankly

shiporsheep · 18/06/2011 21:15

Actually, you could say there is a lot of "martyrdom" in teaching - all the ones I know make massive sacrifices to help (in many ways) the children (that's YOUR DC) they teach.

Having two sisters as teachers I know they conclude that some schools are "easier" than others but during any position they worked most of the holidays and never worked less than 10 hours a day. Think about all the marking, all the preparing - and standards are so high nowadays -it can only be doing in the evenings and weekends. It cost them their health and their marriages (typical of teaching)

tazmosis · 18/06/2011 21:16

Yes YABU as well as coming across as quite ignorant and rather thick.

And I'm not a teacher.

mdowdall · 19/06/2011 09:05

I take it from your post allegrageller that you are a labour supporter? If so, how on earth can you talk about 'undervaluing' education? Education lost its value when grade inflation went rampant under which, erm, administration? I dislike Cameron and his posh mates as much as the next man. But I also struggle to understand why teachers continue to swear allegance to a party that basically made education in this country an absolute joke.

OP posts:
echt · 19/06/2011 09:35

Er...because the alternative is horrendously shite?

Actually, and I can't quote the research, but the average teacher voter in the early 21st century was a tory-voting arsehole. And judging by staffroom conversations and seeing union action at the time, I'd endorse this.

Education was joke looong before Nulabour got in. I can't think of a single sentient socialist teacher who didn't think that Labour would shit on the teachers. The lesser of two evils, as they say.

mdowdall · 19/06/2011 15:43

Well fair enough echt not being a teacher I bow to your greater knowledge. But humour me for a minute - isn't grade inflation the major problem? As a layperson, that seems to me to be where the issue lies in terms of just making a mockery of the system and making it hard for employers to distinguish between one kid and the next.

OP posts:
allegrageller · 19/06/2011 18:56

no, mdowdall, I am not a Labour supporter. But I do'nt blame the entire global economic meltdown on any one party. I loathed Blair, and didn't think Brown was quite so bad, but I have no allegiance to any party because basically I think they have all sold us down the neoliberal river.

allegrageller · 19/06/2011 18:58

And how exactly is grade inflation teachers' fault? If anything, it is the fault of the ludicrous school 'performance' tables system in which schools are valued according to the number of As they can produce, and a dreadful managerial culture of targets and constant 'improvement' of what did not need meddling with in the first place. Values borrowed entirely from your beloved private sector and completely misplaced when it comes to education.

alistron1 · 19/06/2011 19:08

Agree allegrageller. I worked in a corporate private sector environment in the late 90's and it's scary to see how many shite ideas have made it into education. SMART objectives anyone?

bitemabum · 19/06/2011 19:20

i'm coming to this discussion late on but as far as the op is concerned YABVU. I want my kids to be taught by people who feel valued, yes they get great holidays blah blah blah, but the job they do is too important to treat them badly.

allegrageller · 20/06/2011 11:06

It's also happening in universities alistron. Talk of 'value added' and 'target-driven performance' imposed by people who have no idea what academics actually do, but think that 'market values' (bleurgh) and 'competition' will improve it- against all the evidence.

What then reduces me to hollow laughter, is that Tories and private-sector mavens then come on threads like this claiming that due to declining standards, teachers have been proven to be 'lazy' and 'incompetent' when in fact they are exposed to more stress and crap than ever and most of them are still doing a great job despite continuous attempts by successive governments (including Nu Labour) to eff it up.

Peachy · 20/06/2011 12:35

SMART targets useful for iep setting, only way to stop senco setting vague targets such as 'stops being naughty'.

Mind, I did civil service SMART training pushing twenty years ago so very used to it

Swipe left for the next trending thread