To think teachers are taking the piss by striking?

[mdowdall]

They get decent pay.
Even after pension reforms, their pensions will still be way better than the private sector.
They get great holidays.
They have reasonably good job security (again, compared with private sector)
Let?s face it, you could teach a monkey to teach. And yet these lazy bleeders have the audacity to go on strike? Meanwhile, in the real world, people continue to lose their jobs...

Can I also remind MNetters that it is only 2 unions on strike not all teachers so please remember that when lumping us all together in the bashing threads.

Our planet may be overpopulated, but ensuring a minimal birth rate, and therefore a top heavy ageing population in the UK is not the answer IMO. Europe is not where the population growth is happening is it? I don't see a worldwide consensus on reducing population happening any time soon.

YABU. They deserve every penny.

I didn't vote and thus contributed to the low turn out. Nor did anyone in my dept vote. There is no doubt that we are not happy about the proposals for our pension, having had a pay deal imposed of below inflation over the last 4 years in return for our pensions being protected (ha!) - but in the current economic climate I don't see much support for our position.

There is a belief amongst colleagues that having 68yr old teachers in front of a class of 30 teenagers will bluntly resolve itself. Burnt out or not able hack the pace & workload, classroom disruption, lowering of results in a climate of exam result pressure, parental complaint = competence procedures, early retirement, paid off to leave. All are hard to do, but there are ways and means.

Most teachers belong to one of the 3 main teaching unions as insurance in a litigious age and as protection from the vagaries of SMT; it does not always follow that you agree with their political stance.

Sorry. I got distracted by an earlier comment re:population! I do not want to strike. I don't think it will be effective. This thread and others alone show that there would be very little sympathy.

My personal gripe is with those people who love massive generalisations about the private sector, which are based on them or their DH alone . My experience amongst my friends, all of whom are like me - good A levels, good uni degree, some postgrad quals- is that those in the private sector are still getting bonuses, albeit smaller, still getting pay rises, still getting health benefits, company cars, and all have pensions. The whole "all the private sector employees are on their knees" does not ring true for me. It all depends who you know and what you compare things to. They can all move around too to different companies, and do so, looking for better deals. Teachers can't do that, so they are a bit of a captive audience. No matter where we move, the T and C's will be the same.

Has anyone else noticed that Union mail always looks like junk mail and is easy to miss?

Or in the words of my teacher friend: those who can, teach. Those who can't just talk about it!

Agree with goinnowhere, my dh is in private sector - still getting pay rise, still getting bonus, pension scheme in place.

Me in nhs, pay freeze for two years, no bonus, pension scheme slashed so I'm no longer on a final salary scheme and won't get pension till I,m 65. No breaks, finish late and shit pay. Oh and rather than sitting around at a desk job drinking tea like dh I,m running round saving lives on a daily basis and getting abuse from patients and relatives.

I feel like bloody striking.

Quite a few teachers graduated when I did. I lived with 2 trainee teachers during university.

One of them thought Taiwan was the capital of Thailand and that New York was the capital of America.

Thankfully I know where he teaches, and it's no where near where I live.

Loads of teacher types on here moaning. If it is so hard and badly paid, why not get another job??? I will tell you why - because you know that you will struggle to get an equally well paid job with as many hols that takes as (relatively) little brain power. Come on, admit it!
On the pensions thing, most people's pensions are knackered (or on paper at any rate due to falling stock markets blah blah) both in the public and private sector. Demographic changes and all that stuff. The thing is, the teaching union knows this yet still looks to stir up trouble - basically because they are now dealing with a Tory govt (of sorts). They would never have done this when Labour were in power.

Tidey Do you really believe any teacher earns less that NMW if you take into account all their 'unpaid' hours?

Even on a salary of only £25k they would have to work over 80hrs per week EVERY week (both term-time AND holiday weeks) to be under NMW. It's just not realistic to expect us to believe that's happening.

I think teachers generally do a great job and deserve a decent salary and conditions. I really don't envy anyone who has to tackle 30, often unwilling kids every hour of their working day but some teachers need to realise they're onto a good thing compared to most of the private sector as far as salary and benefits.

My sister teaches so I do have some idea of what goes on (for her at least) and it's nowhere near comparable to the working hours and employment conditions of the (degree qualified) staff I manage. I would estimate that at least 70% of our staff on £30k+ are doing 55+ hour weeks, every week except their 4 weeks of holiday, plus doing work most weekends and still answering emails during their holidays, etc.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that everyone should be dragged down to the lowest terms rather than trying to protect what they have, but it's worth bearing in mind that the grass is certainly not greener in the private sector.

Moaning whingers? Look no further than your op, love

are teacher types left wing feminist lesbians by any chance?

Obviously. With sandals and the Guardian under their arm !

I am not complaining about my job. I teach because I enjoy it and I think it is important. I do however have to think about the future too. Again people only compare with the other people they know. In addition to the things i mentioned earlier about all my friends getting rises, benefits etc, I don't know a single one who works regular overtime or ever brings work home so if I were to generalise, I would say people in the private sector have a cushy time of it. Fortunately, I know that what I see in my friends does not necessarily tell the whole story.

Your words, not mine FreudianSlipper.

Finally, in general, teachers do not moan about pay IME, at all. I never expected to make vast amounts of money as a teacher. If that had been important to me I would have chosen a different career. I did like the feeling of security that a pension gave me though. I read on here ages ago, that teachers are fantastic value as child care though. If a CM had 30 mindees and charged £4.50 an hour, that would be £135 an hour, so throw in a bit extra for the educating bit, and you've got yourself a bargain all you taxpayers!

well yes i did type those words followed by a question mark, which means i am asking a question

so what does teacher types actually mean?

hmm so this shit stirring thread stays, despite the fact it's obviously started to rile people up.

Sorry FreudianSlipper, just re-read my last post and not sure why I put teacher types. I meant, erm, teachers.

mdowell you are tarring all teachers with the lefy unionist brush when a lot of teachers on this thread have agreed with you about the strike.

You obviously had shit teachers who failed to teach you empathy, compassion, common sense and the validity of a soundly researched argument.

meh

You said you lived with a teacher, but have you been one?

No?

Then how could you possibly judge?

anyone who thinks teaching requires 'relatively little brain power' is an idiot frankly, mrdowdall. Teachers are postgraduates, and education is a discipline in itself, as you'd know if you bothered to research the topic.

Your argument seems to be that if teachers were 'any good' at anything they would all, er, leave teaching. Again, idiocy. They trained to do this job because (incomprehensible to someone like you) they wanted to do something worthwhile. Also most of them are now qualified as (duh) teachers.

At this rate, however, you'll get your wish. Degrade pay and conditions any further and the best teachers will all leave and do something else.

Our loony society thinks that educating the next generation isn't worthwhile. Fair enough then. Just don't expect a competitive economy in the next few decades because we ain't going to have the skilled workers to produce one.

Well, whatever the rights or wrongs of what they are striking over, strikes won't get them what they want. Strikes work for businesses where they lose money by production stopping, or hurts paying customers who will pressurise management to fix the problem to get service back as it was.

This only 'hurts' the teachers themselves (who lose a days pay) and the children they teach (and therefore pisses off their parents). It in no way will force the government's hand unless teachers were prepared to walk out for a long time, not just a day at a time (think weeks, not days).

This is a Tory government, not Labour, they dont need the unions to like them and they don't need to be seen as the party of the public services. This will only embarrass the government if it is more than a day at a time and will start to seriously effect children's education, or if they 'give in' to unions who strike. Once strike action is started, it's harder for the Tories to U turn, rather than easier.

So it's a day lost pay for teachers, it's a high profile protest, but it'll change nothing.

Good post flyingonion. And remember, even the best teachers can only do so much. If the raw material is poor quality......!!!