To think teachers are taking the piss by striking?

[mdowdall]

They get decent pay.
Even after pension reforms, their pensions will still be way better than the private sector.
They get great holidays.
They have reasonably good job security (again, compared with private sector)
Let?s face it, you could teach a monkey to teach. And yet these lazy bleeders have the audacity to go on strike? Meanwhile, in the real world, people continue to lose their jobs...

No job security for teaching as a whiole any more;; 3 redundancies in our school, 40% unemployment amongst NQTs. not so cushy as people think.

teach a monkey to teach? really? would you be OK with a monkey taking your child's class? my kids all have SEN at varying levels and they need properly qualified professionals.

Pensions- meh. Not sure either way on that one. My parents lost theirs years ago as a result of loopholes. OTOH I sure don't want someone pushing 70 trying to restrain DS1 in his ASD Base. Just would not work.

I'd love to teach and be an ASD specialist but 40% unemployment is pretty damned scary and I may well take my MA elsewhere. Too huge a risk sadly. I imagine lots of specialists will feel the same.

Teaching shouldn't be treated as some special job for saints. It's hard work but no more so than countless other jobs, many of which are far less well paid. I agree that the reforms are a bad thing for teachers and that agreements aren't being honoured - but that is life when our country is in the state that it's in. Everyone's having to make adjustments.

I've already posted my views on the 'in the news' forum but re-writing the relevant bits for here.

1. The strike will not hurt the people it is aimed at (the govt), it will hurt children and their parents. I know one day of missed education isn?t a massive problem but it?s a pain for working parents and on 30th June my school has a lunchtime fete, a charity cricket match and a big play rehearsal ? the children will therefore miss out in other ways and don?t deserve that.

2. Teachers do get a much better deal than many other public sector workers. The changes are negative yes, but big deal, so are everyone else?s prospects at the moment.

3. I have to work till 65 anyway. So does any teacher who started work after December 2006. 3 extra years don?t seem worth making a huge fuss over.

4. Teaching is not the horrendous job that so many people think it is. I work between 55 and 85 hours a week in termtime BUT I work for probably 10-15 hours a week in the holidays. They pay off is totally worth it. Teachers get to spend time with children, family and friends in holidays and work to their own flexi schedules in a way few other people can. I?m on half term at the moment and, although I?m in the staff room printing end of year exam papers I?m also browsing mumsnet (clearly!) and my children are outside playing on our adventure playground ? not exactly a hardship is it! I wouldn?t go so far as to say that teaching is a cushy job but it really isn?t up there with the hardest.

5. I think my salary is pretty good. 5 years post graduating and I earn £26000 ish. I don?t believe I deserve any more for what I do. I love my job and sometimes find it hard to believe that I?m actually getting paid to have so much fun.

Staffroom talk at my school was that us teachers don't want to strike BECAUSE IT'S UNFAIR ON THE KIDS. Hence the low turnout.

Doesn't mean we don't feel strongly about it. I think a legal action from the unions would be better, so I changed union to one that is not proposing strike action, but is taking legal action instead.

Teach a monkey to teach? No.

But OP, you must have had a brilliant teacher ... s/her taught an idiot to type.

chosenone - I dont see the point of salary comparisons because salaries will always be driven by supply and demand, surely? Teachers, for me, get reasonable pay for what they do but not as good as some other professions because, let's face it, it is a job that many people could easily do.

Well, I don't really think YANBU about the pensions, but I find your attitude very offensive and it makes me want to say yes, YABU.

A monkey could not be taught to teach.
Teachers very much operate in the real world.
In my experience teachers do not spend the school holidays loafing about, but spend a great deal of the time working.

Just to add, I've been a teacher (but have no pension, so no personal axe to grind here) and it's not as easy as it looks. I've dealt with teenagers who tower above me physically and whose behaviour has been 'challenging' to say the least. I've had mountains of assessments to do and essays to mark. I've spent many a night marking course work.

I'm not saying that it is harder than every other job or that I worked harder than people not in teaching, but it's not a job that everyone can do. Plenty of people on my PGCE struggled to complete the training.

The Prime Minister couldn't get a majority against an unpopular opponent in a recession; his coalition supporters broke 'promises' to get power; their policies weren't announced until after the election (on what turnout? what proportion of the vote?) and nobody put a tick against 'coalition', did they? Asfor this 'intimidation'line - it's a secret postal ballot. The unions policies have been ratified at their conferences by democratically elected delegates. If they don't want to strike, they could vote 'no'.

YABU, they are allowed a voice just as you are OP in your chosen profession.

mdowdall could they?

I don't mean with the gifted and able kids. Although even then some people clearly much more suitable than otehrs.

But with the ones with LD, some of whom will have behavioural issues; or those with EBD?

I doubt that tbh.

LadyClariceCannockMonty - I used to live with a teacher. She was, as I understand a v v good teacher - when ofsted came to town she got brilliant results.
During the 6 week summer hols, each year she spent 5 weeks either on hol or in the back garden sunbathing and the final week doing a bit of planning and what-not.

OP - YANBU and YABU. Not every teacher has voted for strike action. The ones who voted against (including my dh, for pretty much the reasons stated in your op) will be villified as much as those who voted yes though, and that fucking sucks.

Didn't see the bit about teaching monkeys to teach - that is really fucking offensive! YABVU to think this.

Well

A) as I understand it salaries are paid pro rate so she isn;t being paid for that time anyway

B) things change, and the admin I see going on these days- wow

mdowall, fair enough but I did say in my experience, which obviously is going to have some bearing on my opinions.

My dad, who just retired from being a headteacher, used to discourage his teachers from doing too much work at weekends and in holidays because he believed they should be resting so as to come back to school fresh, enthusiastic and able to teach well. So I guess my argument is that perhaps some 'down time' is essential for a good teacher to remain a good teacher. My dad spent many a holiday/weekend/evening working though and some of his teachers were at his methods, especially in the latter days when stupid timewasting paperwork really started to fuck up dominate teachers' working lives.

Manicinsomniac - if you read anything but govt propaganda you'll discover the country is in pretty much the same state as most of the last century post ww2. This catastrophising is simply not true. As for 'everybody' making adjustments - Ha! George Osborne? Adjustments? The poor make adjustments, not the rich. We are not all in this together.

Never a truer word, aliceliddell.

Perhaps headteachers or deputies or first-time around teacher spend a lot of their holidays working (why?) but the ordinary class-room teachers who have a lot of stuff already prepared don't, my mum is one and she certainly relaxed in the school holidays as indeed she was entitled to do given how hard she'd worked all term. As someone else has said, if you love the holidays, and you love how easy it is to teach, feel free.

I don't think teachers do themselves any favours though by exaggerating how much work they do all weekend and holidays though, especially as most people in professional jobs work the odd evenings, weekends and so on.

I think they should strike, changing the pension after you've been contributing for years is really shitty and it's true that many people do put up with a lot in teaching in return for longer holidays and an ok pension (it's not the teachers now who are taking the mickey, but all the ones who went on 'ill-health' about 15 years ago aged 50 when the pension gates were closing, again members of my own family).

I am a Mum whose child has amazing teachers. They work hard and are committed to DS and the children in the school. I will support them 100% in whatever action follows now.
As for the holidays, answer is simple - if you are then the country is crying out for teachers. Off you go and have the same long holidays. If you are not called in that is, my sister has worked IN the holidays to offer academic support at the request of the headteacher, my sister is a TA but many teachers were requested in too. No extra cash as obviously still being paid. Long holidays are not all they appear.

"I don't think teachers do themselves any favours though by exaggerating how much work they do all weekend and holidays though"

No need for exaggeration in dh's case. I see what he does. He's NQT though, and head of his subjects, plus implementing new A level programmes, so he's bound to have a lot going on, as you say, it will improve when he's a few years under his belt. Doesn't take kindly to being patronised about his hours now though, understandably.

The country isn't crying out for teachers. Not all over anyway. In secondary schools for certain subjects they are but primary teaching is massively oversubscribed.

I don't think teachers do themselves any favours though by exaggerating how much work they do all weekend and holidays though

I really don't feel this is the case. In my experience, teachers don't mention their working hours at all until ignorant people start spouting about how teachers work 9-3 and then have six months off...

Yes, what aliceliddell said.

The percentage of teachers voting for action is still higher than the percentage of people voting for Cameron's Party (whether you take turn-out into account or not). It is notable that the ATL has never voted for national strike action in its 127 year history.

The most moderate of the Unions. It has done so now.

And as for it being a PITA for wohm - I will use it as an excuse to work from home for the day. Hurray!

Teach a monkey to teach [sceptical] ? Do fuck-away-off now, divvy.