to think that the middle-classes suck the very soul out of parenting (and life in generally actually)?

[bejeezus]

Ive been on/reading a few threads- about Unconditional Parenting, Attachment Parenting, Steiner blah blah blah. 99.9% of each of these 'philosophies' is common sense, the other 0.1% is deranged and warped interpretation of what started out as a description of common sense.

I am sick of people researching and 'reading round' subjects, analyzing and LABELLING EVERY activity and aspect of growing kids. People (and animals!) have been doing it since time began.

Is it because middle-classers have all been raised by nannies/ have no parental role-models/ have poles up their asses/ lack imagination/ HAVE no intuition/ have no faith in their abilities/ need to feel superior - WHAT is it??

What is wrong with intuition, spontaneity and getting it wrong? in fact I bet my socks there is some research some-where, that says that those are essential aspects of child-rearing and if you dont embrace them whole-heartedly, your childrens teeth will fall out/ they will loose the ability to speak and be in prison by the age of 25 years and 7 months.

Why am I bothered?;

I said on a Steiner thread in parenting that 'I hate wooden toys and all they stand for'

Then I got to thinking; actually I hate what they now stand for but I DONT hate wooden toys. I love wooden toys; the smell, the feel, the memories. But we used to scavenge the tips for timber/rob neighbours fence posts then get dad/grandad/uncle to help us build go karts/benches/huts with an excess of nail string and glue. Where is the soul and creativity in parents spending a weeks/ a months wage (or even a penny) on some imported sustainably sourced wooden toy fashioned by a stranger or mass produced in a factory? It has no more educational/ developmental value than a brightly coloured plastic toy. It is not more enjoyable for the child. It is more enjoyable for the parents BECAUSE IT LOOKS NICE IN THEIR HOUSE!!

Middle class parents are like the anti-Rastamouse;

'always there to make a good thing bad'

Class War- Bring it!

The Idle Parent. Dammit, I could have written that one, if I could have been bothered :)

From minor aristocrats to people who bought their council house, everyone seems happy to self-identify as middle class now. It's a meaningless term.

damn right i prefer wooden toys they do look much nicer shame they do not do wooden lego

of course all new parents are suddenly subjected to a new language, its called marketing and before what interest did you have in weaning, get children to sleep or the general day to day things you deal with as a parent

parenting books are nothing new though
Plato and Rousseau both turned their thoughts to parenting as part of various treatises.

but then I suspect they were both middle-class

and I am definitely middle class for having read them.

Some of my friends are working class, one even lives in a HA flat. Even I was shocked when she gave her DD humous and breadstick as a treat. Friend thinks she loves them when the truth is that was all that was on offer, poor kid, when said friends snacks on snickers in secret.

Trying to work out which magazine or newspaper this is for........

bejeezus - you need to live in a normal area with ordinary people then you won't have to be so disappointed in the people you meet.

The Museum of Childhood does indeed house more modern toys e.g. currently housing a Nintendo DS whatchamething...

I have a bag which says Yummy Mummy on it (actually I have two). And it has a cupcake on it. Don't wear Boden though, far too old for me. My mum wears Boden though, if that counts? Feel free to look down your noses at me.

On the parenting downside, DD (18mos) is a big TV fan and has been known to wave around remote controls in other peoples houses while demanding "Cbees!" or "Shhme Shhme!"

Haven't read any of the parenting books you mention though I have read Toddler Taming, which I thought was fairly interesting.

I think some people read and cling to these books because they've now got this child and don't have a clue what to do. Big families where you saw lots of babies and toddlers around while growing up are no longer the norm, and extended families are spread out across the UK so unable to offer hands on support. Nowadays you sit at home with possibly the first baby which you've held for more than 10 minutes at a time, and you have no one telling you what to do or how to do it, and it's bloody hard to know instinctively. Women (and men) who have previously been successful in their lives are suddenly totally out of their depth.

So, when a book comes along purporting to provide you with the answers, and it chimes vaguely with the ideas you already had about the kind of parent you want to be, then it's great. Someone is giving you the answers AND agreeing with you, all at the same time. So the parenting method becomes almost like a religion.

Likewise, people overanalyse because they're out of their depth, they've never felt totally out of their depth before and don't know how to cope. So they worry and pick over every activity. And they get conflicting advice from everyone with dire predictions of what will happen if they don't follow every bit of advice. So they become nervous wrecks and cling to their books and methods even more.

On the other hand, some people read these books, take the bits they like from them, ignore the bits they don't and get on with it. Doesn't make them bad for reading them.

One observation - the seriousness (is that the right word - pretentiousness maybe?) today around child rearing seems much more than the 20 or so years ago whwn we started off.

• Buggies that look like 4x4s and cost as much as my first car
• Ludicrously priced branded clothing
• All sorts of adult "Agendas" pushed onto pre school kids' diets, lifestyles etc
• A sense of "entitled to my rights" among new mums (judging by MN anyway) which I don't recall from my time.

But I'm probably just being an old grump....

Highly entertained by the pointed listing of those who apparently suck the soul out of parenting and life in general! I definitely think we need more lists like that so we all know exactly what little boxes we belong in.

I agree entirely that Pagwatch belongs on that list. I have often said to her on other threads 'Pagwatch, you parental soul sucker'. I hope she pops along soon to Learn Her Place.

I'm middle class, never read a parenting book, don't normally swear but fuck off and get on with bringing up your own family.

kungfupannda- the undercurrent of deep irritation running through your post has just earned you a place on the list.

OK - I bought wooden toys when DD was little because I liked the way they looked and I mistakenly believed that they would become family heirlooms.

I dressed DD in Mini Boden (she now prefers Primark).

I fed her homemade purees and no red meat (she now enjoys a burger and diet coke)

I have aspirations to shop at Waitrose but we don't have one.

I also hate sweeping generalisations and have already asked whether you want gravy or curry sauce with your chip?

OMG!

I just looked up 'baby led weaning' as I never knew what it was and apparently its giving your baby some chips and other bits off your plate to suck on while you are eating your lunch. Somebody made a career out of telling parents to do that? Even though every parent (including me) had been doing it since babies could suck on a mamoth bone!

Really? I need to work on my tone of typing if the undercurrent of massive sniggering didn't come through.

But anyway, I made The List! And without saying a word about the actual OP.

[campaigns for exitpursued to be admitted to the list immediately]

morebeta (baby led weaners) are exempt from criticism. Someone will come on shortly to tell you that.

Oops.

[adds more beta to campaign]

Tsk Beta- better not let Aitch hear you!

my parents were working class and could have done with reading a book or two on parenting. actually they could have done well reading a few books in general. Might have made them slightly more open minded, not quite so violent and possible not condemn anyone who isn't working class!
In fact if they'd read a few books they may not have made so many stupid and ignorant sweeping generalisations based upon class

Beta my mum did advanced BLW, she gave us wine. And olives!! (well it wasn't poncy in Spain, it was poor man's food but...) And she hasn't read the book.

(I'm afraid if you gave your dcs chip off your plate, that's....you know...very working class)

Class has nothing to do with it.

I'd rather be a kid in a household where a parent takes an interest in me than one that doesn't give a flying fuck.

The stuff I've read around attachment parenting (we were already doing it and I agree 99% of it was what came naturally to us - we read thebooks later!) is that it DOES promote common sense parenting, and a return to what feels natural for a parent.

Some of the problems come with todays obsession with getting the child onto a routine (esp gina ford but also lots of other baby books) and that takes away a parent's natural instinct and instead trying to follow a "professional". I support anything that encourages you to to use your own instinct and common sense but certainly in the circles I've moved in its NOT the norm! In my post-natal group most were desperately trying to get their little babies into a routine and competing with each other as to which book was "best". I was the odd one for enjoying cuddling and feeding my baby!

You're on the list MissBeehiving