to think that the middle-classes suck the very soul out of parenting (and life in generally actually)?

[bejeezus]

Ive been on/reading a few threads- about Unconditional Parenting, Attachment Parenting, Steiner blah blah blah. 99.9% of each of these 'philosophies' is common sense, the other 0.1% is deranged and warped interpretation of what started out as a description of common sense.

I am sick of people researching and 'reading round' subjects, analyzing and LABELLING EVERY activity and aspect of growing kids. People (and animals!) have been doing it since time began.

Is it because middle-classers have all been raised by nannies/ have no parental role-models/ have poles up their asses/ lack imagination/ HAVE no intuition/ have no faith in their abilities/ need to feel superior - WHAT is it??

What is wrong with intuition, spontaneity and getting it wrong? in fact I bet my socks there is some research some-where, that says that those are essential aspects of child-rearing and if you dont embrace them whole-heartedly, your childrens teeth will fall out/ they will loose the ability to speak and be in prison by the age of 25 years and 7 months.

Why am I bothered?;

I said on a Steiner thread in parenting that 'I hate wooden toys and all they stand for'

Then I got to thinking; actually I hate what they now stand for but I DONT hate wooden toys. I love wooden toys; the smell, the feel, the memories. But we used to scavenge the tips for timber/rob neighbours fence posts then get dad/grandad/uncle to help us build go karts/benches/huts with an excess of nail string and glue. Where is the soul and creativity in parents spending a weeks/ a months wage (or even a penny) on some imported sustainably sourced wooden toy fashioned by a stranger or mass produced in a factory? It has no more educational/ developmental value than a brightly coloured plastic toy. It is not more enjoyable for the child. It is more enjoyable for the parents BECAUSE IT LOOKS NICE IN THEIR HOUSE!!

Middle class parents are like the anti-Rastamouse;

'always there to make a good thing bad'

Class War- Bring it!

Got nowt to do with being middle class.

Got everything to do with over analyzing being a parent.

As you say OP 99.9% of these "theories of parenting" are common sense.

Private school, wordfactory! See, I would look at your family and say MC for sure, just on the basis of that fact plus professional parents. I can't see how they would be anything other than MC.

The whole thing is very interesting and odd, but gives British people so much to talk about.

I remember chatting to a woman newly arrived from China once and she said "I understand now why Brits are always talking about the weather: it changes all the time!" And presumably the endless morphing and sheer random variability of class-thoughts also gives us plenty of conversational fodder that non-Brits lack.

I love to think fondly about that Chinese woman when she was still in China. Staring up at an unchanging mild blue sky and wondering how people in Britain managed to say so much about it.

OP - YANBU - on the plus side, it gives my ocular muscles a good work out as I roll my eyes.

On the down side, it's a frightening reflection I feel, upon those not confident enough in their own decisions. :( Rise up wimminz - you probably won't break the baybee.

Am loving "middle class but without the trappings". I am clearly upper class "without the trappings".

lol Alpine. I think lots of the proudly working class are with all the MC trappings.

Quite a rash of proudly working class comedians on Radio Four at the moment, who joke all the time about 'what the middle class do' and 'what Radio Four people are like', seemingly without realising they are middle class people on Radio Four.

i think it comes down to that people many people have their children later and think about it a long time and actively 'decide' and then try to conceive and have the money to indulge more. Of course they are going to analyze more (most already have over thought everything in the run up to TTC).

Once upon a time boy would meet girl, get married, fall pregnant soon after, struggle with little money and knowledge of parenting techniques and the internet. have baby after baby and not really have the time, maturity, money or knowledge of different lifestyles to do nothing more than survive the experience.

Of course The Idle Parent can let his kids run around and entertain themselves because he has a sodding great big house in the country and a flexible at-home job. If he lived on a council estate - eh, not so much. Talk about privilege.

I'm solidly middle-class, I think, and I got sent over here because of my own neurotic thread about keeping a tally in my head about how well I parent.

But here's the thing. I'm a really fucking good mother. I'm poor (temporarily, and in a terribly middle-class investing-for-the-future sort of way) so I don't do the expensive classes or the sensory doodad whatsits; any spare money in the budget is more likely to go on craft materials and children's books. I cook nice meals from scratch ingredients; I buy nice clothes but only when heavily discounted, because they last longer; I teach my daughter phonics and how to plant vegetable seedlings and how to post letters; I breastfed for 18 months, used a sling sometimes and co-slept when it suited us.

And all of that is common sense, none of it is a parenting theory nor does it make me a victim of consumer goods preying on insecurity. But it's also all associated with being middle-class, somehow, and I'm damned if I'm going to stand by and pretend that it doesn't matter, that if I didn't limit television and read to her and inculcate a love of vegetables in her. I put a lot of effort into parenting, and I'm fucked if i'm going to feel ashamed of that.

YANBU

For sure we are all over-thinking things these days. Our lives have become our children's lives in many ways. One issue dh and I were discussing the other day is so-called 'playground politics'. There was an article in a magazine I was reading about how to 'survive' the playground when your child starts school. I mean FFS. Years ago parents didn't stress about playground politics. They dropped their children at school and picked them up afterwards. That's all there is to it. I don't even remember collections being done for teachers or my mum going on mums nights out.

I think much of this over-thinking is a class thing. One thing I've noticed is it seems to be the middle-class mother who has given up her career to bring up a family. Maybe it's as if they feel they have to have a purpose and put their life and soul into raising their children....?

I'm not sure that the working classes had a monopoly of virtue any more than the upper classes or the middle classes. Anyone who feels better than others by virtue of their class is a git.

Those who make a big deal about their working class origins aren't exempt from being gits, even if they're now slightly richer gits than they used to be.

Tortoise there's no need to feel ashamed...but there's no need to feel superior either...do it because you want to. End of.

As long as you do it all because you want to then everyone's a winner.
But many MC parents seem to feel that if they do X,Y or Z it will lead to happy successful children. Or that skipping X will be an out and out disaster.

But this is fiddling while Rome burns...As Tony Parsons said on that programme Who Gets the Best Jobs, the middel classes need to wake up and smell the coffee.

I agree with minipie-nothing to do with class-just overanalysing, reading too many books, not trusting instincts, having a bad upbring and wanting different, treating the DC like a job or project, having too much spare time-one- or a selection -or all.

Quite word. As if rearing children is a painting by numbers exercise. IMO you do your best, pass on the good bits of your experience and leave out the crap, and love them a lot. However you do it your child will be his/her own person and may reject all your values and attitudes when he's old enough to do so. There are no guarantees.

I think the middle class, totally up themselves parent following a handbook is doing just as much a disservice to their kids as the working class parent who yells "come here you little f*cker" across the road to their 5 yo and whacks them one when they do come back across the road.

Isn't it daisies?

I think it's important not to pigeonhole people - isn't that just lazy thinking?

I'm probably working class - certainly if you look at my income bracket and where I live (not my education though). And I love the ideas of attachment parenting and Steiner education. And I really love wooden toys, although we have plastic ones too. People can like what they like without others making assumptions can't they? I'd hate to be making all my choices based on whether they were working class or middle class.

I agree that the term yummy mummy is completely silly.

...disclaimer...I'm sure the middle classes whack their kids as well, they just don't do it in full view, I mean...what would the neighbours think?

hmm, I think that's going a bit far Miggsie

I suspect most children would prefer a parent who is over analytical and over involved rather than a parent who calls them a little fucker and hits them.

I gather from this thread that it's not cool to be middle class, but other than that, what's the problem with people buying wooden toys or reading child rearing books? Who does it harm? Why would anyone else care?

EightiesChick: "I have never met any woman who describes herself as a 'yummy mummy'."

Some women around these parts have the very words on signs hanging in their cars!!

There might be a middle way minipie

I think someone earlier mentioned the need of today's parents to shape their children.
There is imo a strong return of the theory of behaviourism which suits everybody: it suits the industry and it suits the modern parents because we are a generation who has control over everything (our parents and grandparents were more fatalists)

my now departed grandad once said 'you're not working class, you're first class'. basically, be decent, behave, respect yourself and others and work hard.

enough of this class envy bullshit. please. love your children - and shut up about how others choose to raise their kids - so long as no abuse or neglect just live and let live ffs.

bejeezus - I agree with your sentiments entirely.

I first came on MN when DS1 was 9 and was totally unaware of the terms 'steiner' or 'baby led weaning' or 'unconditional parenting' or a myriad of other terms that spring from what I would describe as London centred parental neurosis.

Though obviously middle class, my children play with the full panoply of plastic tat that I shovel out of the house every few years and replace it with yet more.

As a brilliant old school (male) obstretric consultant said to my wife - the idea is to leave hospital with a healthy happy baby and nothing else matters. I would apply the same logic to the whole of child rearing. Producing a happy well adjusted adult is what matters - not which latest trendy method you use.

Let's hope so Yellowstone

Not read the whole thread. CBA.

Does this not scream out "looking for material for article" to anyone else?