to think that the middle-classes suck the very soul out of parenting (and life in generally actually)?

[bejeezus]

Ive been on/reading a few threads- about Unconditional Parenting, Attachment Parenting, Steiner blah blah blah. 99.9% of each of these 'philosophies' is common sense, the other 0.1% is deranged and warped interpretation of what started out as a description of common sense.

I am sick of people researching and 'reading round' subjects, analyzing and LABELLING EVERY activity and aspect of growing kids. People (and animals!) have been doing it since time began.

Is it because middle-classers have all been raised by nannies/ have no parental role-models/ have poles up their asses/ lack imagination/ HAVE no intuition/ have no faith in their abilities/ need to feel superior - WHAT is it??

What is wrong with intuition, spontaneity and getting it wrong? in fact I bet my socks there is some research some-where, that says that those are essential aspects of child-rearing and if you dont embrace them whole-heartedly, your childrens teeth will fall out/ they will loose the ability to speak and be in prison by the age of 25 years and 7 months.

Why am I bothered?;

I said on a Steiner thread in parenting that 'I hate wooden toys and all they stand for'

Then I got to thinking; actually I hate what they now stand for but I DONT hate wooden toys. I love wooden toys; the smell, the feel, the memories. But we used to scavenge the tips for timber/rob neighbours fence posts then get dad/grandad/uncle to help us build go karts/benches/huts with an excess of nail string and glue. Where is the soul and creativity in parents spending a weeks/ a months wage (or even a penny) on some imported sustainably sourced wooden toy fashioned by a stranger or mass produced in a factory? It has no more educational/ developmental value than a brightly coloured plastic toy. It is not more enjoyable for the child. It is more enjoyable for the parents BECAUSE IT LOOKS NICE IN THEIR HOUSE!!

Middle class parents are like the anti-Rastamouse;

'always there to make a good thing bad'

Class War- Bring it!

beepazoid

defiantly working class - i like this - me too

well I agree but am middle class too ! its good that people care but its the whole NCt generation thing, JUST IGNORE IT, as most of us whatever class we are have common sense and feed the kids fishfingers, petit fucking filous and let them watch TV!

Agree about the wooden toy/plastic toy discussion. Used to annoy me that children's museums will always find place for an ancient, handmade toy made of wood or porcelain. And museums don't want to find space for Tiny Tears dolls, Playmobil, mass produced plastic toys. But you know what? I loved my Tiny Tears and my Playmobil! Just as much as eighteenth century kid loved their wooden toys and tin soldiers! Probably more because you'd get in no end of trouble if you dropped and broke your precious porcelain doll but if you boot Tiny Tears down the stairs a hundred times she'll still come out fighting.

What does yummy mummy mean? Isn't yummy something you say about food? Are these mothers edible in some sense? (yuch).

oh and they describe themselves as yummy mummies too. And if you're not a yummy mummy they don't talk to you... Delightful!

Brilliantly put Beejeezus. Unfortunately there is a few smug mums on here who think they are such wonderful parents, only allowing wooden toys, no chocolate before 5 years old etc. All i see are control freaks whose smuggery is going to come back and bite them big time.

mumwitha dragontattoo My mum and I adore Bertie. Can't wait to read the latest one.

I do think that all the information available today means that there is more anxiety about doing the "right thing" or even about being seen to do the right thing.

Part of me is glad that I never discovered MN till my child was school age. I'd never heard of BLW and attachment/unconditional parenting at all. I couldn't BF but never felt the slightest guilt about FF. We just made it up as we went along, with a "moderation in all things" approach and everything seems to have turned out fine.

A lot of this stuff seems to me about superiority, and self-justification sometimes. What IS wrong with common sense?

there is a fairly radical difference between most midlle class parents; and most working class parents. And it shows in their children (we should not deny the obvious)

Of course many parents have no faith in their abilities. We are the products of several generations of dispersed families growing up under the control guidance of an increasingly interfering nanny-state.

Earlier generations just got on with it, they grew up with babies, and they weren't given guidance by any establishment other than their own community. Now we have new parents who have never even held a baby before, and have not had the opportunity to develop their instincts. We have parents terrified of doing anything different to 'official guidelines'.

So some follow blindly, some go their own way, some research, and some get caught up in the research and forget the wider picture.

Not forgetting, either, that fewer and fewer people have the financial means to stay at home and play with their dc or dgc. They themselves have not developed the skills to make toys. And even if they did they no longer live near their family to do so.

It's nothing to do with 'class'.

You aren't being unreasonable to be irritated by that type of parent.

But most of the country are middle class (aren't we?) and very few parents are like that. So the class thing didn't need to be mentioned at all.

"And museums don't want to find space for Tiny Tears dolls,"

I am sure the Museum of Childhood in Bethnal Green have a Tiny Tears and "plastic tat" although I haven't been there for years.

You are over stating this but I know what you are saying - that constant over-thinking of everything - having to have a name for everything that we have all been doing for year (yes baby-led weening i am looking at you) - Hassled is right it is not about class it is about being a twat!

This thread has reminded me why we shouldn't book a Mark Warner holiday this year. It seems like a good idea but the minute I get there I'll instantly be annoyed by all the loud parenting.

Some people (of all classes) didn't learn how to parent well by example, so read books on parenting in a desperate attempt to break the cycle and not screw up their children as much as they themselves were. So just 'getting it wrong' can be very wrong. Even if you had the best parents in the world, honestly you could probably learn something new. So frankly YABVU and narrow minded. Anyway, what on earth is wrong with wanting the best for your children. Plus wooden blocks is hardly mistreating your child...

OP = your thread is so bloody true and very well put. Note also that the really angry posters on this thread - ie ones calling you a twat etc - will be ones who tick all the boxes you mention LOL

jeckadeck- well put

i agree

i hadnt thought of it like that

"Part of me is glad that I never discovered MN till my child was school age." Me too Portofino.

I would say there is a huge difference between doing something because you need to do it, or because you feel it is right, whether ethically, morally or educationally, and doing it because you feel it "gives the right image".

mdowdall - noone is calling the op a twat... I certainly am not

But...but....Tarquin needs mummy to cut up his sun dried tomato? Are you saying he shoild play with rough kids from the estate?

Of course! All middle class people are exactly as you describe- how clever of your working class brian to notice it!

Now change the 'middle class' in your title to 'Jewish' or 'Gay' and do you see where there might be a problem with it?

You also seem to have missed the fact that the first 3 approaches you mention (UP, AP, Steiner) are all american movements in the main, and therefore completely outwith the British class system.
And yes, let's ban research and reading around a subject because goodness we wouldn't want the populace to be well-read or educated would we?

But apart from that 'bravo'

I'd never heard the phrase 'people like us' until I joined mumsnet. I think that says it all really.

'I have never met any woman who describes herself as a yummy mummy'

Oh they dont do that in a direct way, the do it in a non direct way with a dose of supposed sarcasm. At least the ones i have come across....

OP YANBU. It is very very boring. And it is the reason i was often going to parks and cafes on my own in different areas to avoid the groups and the 'have you read this book', 'i practise this and that method' 'what parenting style do you do'...etc.

PrettyCandles unfortunately it is partly about class though. Middle class women tend to have children later and tend to have been to university and therefore to have moved away from their mothers and local support networks. So they are less likely to have a whole network of people around to help and more likely to need to read books full of absurd (and not so absurd) parenting theories.

Would you like gravy or curry sauce to go with that chip?

Is this the sort of middle class parenting you mean?

I particularly like the warning that "We don't accept adverts for cots, buggies, baby monitors, disposable nappies, formula milk, baby bottles, gro-bags, baby walkers, leashes/harnesses, or commercial baby food."

Cos yes, baby sleeping bags, they are REALLY going to screw up your child, aren't they?