to think that the middle-classes suck the very soul out of parenting (and life in generally actually)?

[bejeezus]

Ive been on/reading a few threads- about Unconditional Parenting, Attachment Parenting, Steiner blah blah blah. 99.9% of each of these 'philosophies' is common sense, the other 0.1% is deranged and warped interpretation of what started out as a description of common sense.

I am sick of people researching and 'reading round' subjects, analyzing and LABELLING EVERY activity and aspect of growing kids. People (and animals!) have been doing it since time began.

Is it because middle-classers have all been raised by nannies/ have no parental role-models/ have poles up their asses/ lack imagination/ HAVE no intuition/ have no faith in their abilities/ need to feel superior - WHAT is it??

What is wrong with intuition, spontaneity and getting it wrong? in fact I bet my socks there is some research some-where, that says that those are essential aspects of child-rearing and if you dont embrace them whole-heartedly, your childrens teeth will fall out/ they will loose the ability to speak and be in prison by the age of 25 years and 7 months.

Why am I bothered?;

I said on a Steiner thread in parenting that 'I hate wooden toys and all they stand for'

Then I got to thinking; actually I hate what they now stand for but I DONT hate wooden toys. I love wooden toys; the smell, the feel, the memories. But we used to scavenge the tips for timber/rob neighbours fence posts then get dad/grandad/uncle to help us build go karts/benches/huts with an excess of nail string and glue. Where is the soul and creativity in parents spending a weeks/ a months wage (or even a penny) on some imported sustainably sourced wooden toy fashioned by a stranger or mass produced in a factory? It has no more educational/ developmental value than a brightly coloured plastic toy. It is not more enjoyable for the child. It is more enjoyable for the parents BECAUSE IT LOOKS NICE IN THEIR HOUSE!!

Middle class parents are like the anti-Rastamouse;

'always there to make a good thing bad'

Class War- Bring it!

Excellent.

And you're on my list mdowdall

But LeQueen you had that famous thread . You are in the list.

Post of the thread award goes to.....jeckadeck

Ok obviously not all MC parents are like this but it is definitely more common among them.

I think for me its the 'showiness' of it. Making a big point of telling everyone that Isobel and Raif never watch TV etc-Just fecking get on with it, its not a competition!

I am working class yet i did lots of the things mentioned here.

'Baby led weaning'....when i did it it wasnt called that and i didnt feel the need to tell people thats what i was doing-i just did it!

'Heuristic play' ......That was just playing with stuff that you had around the house [saving little empty boxes for them to play with] , banging a hairbrush on an empty ice cream tub etc.

It was just doing your best and getting on with it, no need for instruction books.

As someone upthread said...parenting is big business and those that jeckadeck talks about keep lots of people rich.

I too agree with EricMistress, why put a label on everything.
And I have read parenting books and asked for advice on MN. So what. So I didn't know it all. who cares.
And I really really don't care if you do or don't co-sleep, bottle feed, buy wooden toys . or not.
I do loads of great things. I also do loads of things I shouldn't. who cares. best I go and wipe the chocolate of my kids faces as they are glued to the tv.
do I look bovvered ?
And yes, I am MC and have qualifications coming out of me ears. does that make a difference to the amount of f**k ups, I have/am/ and will continue to make in my parenting ?
Thought not !

@ MoreBeta!

Dd has chicken nuggets et frites et mayonnaise from the Fritkot tonight, and is watching LooneyTunes. DH is away, I am knackered after my day of wheeler dealing and having a glass of wine. I love the continental life, where nutella and wine and chips are seen as basic food stuffs - not all together of course.....

LeQueen, yes, yes! My biggies are manners, consideration for others and trying your best at school/whatever. I couldn't give a monkey's if she has an occasional fruitshoot/McDonalds and spends her pocket money on Zhu Zhu hamsters.

I'm only posting in the hope of making The List, but as I'm on benefits with not even a goat to my name and subscribe to the Anything For A Quiet Life school, I'm not sure I'll qualify. But pratting about on mumsnet all day has got to count for something, surely? Even if I do have the parenting section hidden.

OP -I don't know many middle class people who were raised by nannies .

You've made an error in assuming all pushy / nutty / controlling parents are middle-class.

I would never describe myself as such, although I fit the mould financially, I certainly don't fit it intellectually or as one of these parents you describe in your OP.

Agree with LeQueen also, endless breastfeeding technique discussions and
potty-training habits, seriously, it that all some people have to think about?

Is a yummy mummy the same as a milf?

I love the term Baby Babbling...

This thread is such a relief.

Laquitar/Portofino - excellent! So now I can now impress people by saying 'oh we always ensure our children strictly follow a healthy Continental European diet'.

LeQueen/Portofino - couldn't agree more. Have two, make them read a lot, good manners, send to bed early, try hard at school/sport/life. There is an entire range of motivational books, CDs, software, wallcharts, fridge magnets in that idea.

LeQueen obviously has "normal" friends.

Sitting on a dusty floor on a mouldy animal shaped mat and half singing 'Wind the bobbin up' in a baby music class is staring into the eye of naked hopelessness.

I have since found a happy place.

None of my friends HAD babies when I did. They either had teenagers - very handy for babysitting - or started much later. Apart from a couple of months at a baby group run by the local HV's where we put the babies on a mat and learned how to regain control of our pelvic floor/baby cpr/how to puree healthy stuff, I totally avoided all such things!

My social life at that time involved leaving dh in charge and nipping off to the pub, where after 5 mins of the obligatory "look at how gorgeous my pfb is in these photos" thing, we drank chardonnay and discussed who was shagging who in the office.

Here is a useful antidote and attempt at explaining such parenting. It was unhelpfully packaged as yet another parenting advice book but it really isn't. It has the best explanation I have come across for how we have created this particular culture of parenting.

www.amazon.co.uk/Paranoid-Parenting-Ignoring-Experts-Child/dp/184706521X/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1308159435&sr=8-5

That explains my shortage of friends over the last few years!.

I should have got quietly pissed, instead of telling them how boring they were.

I must confess to missing out on the Baby Babblers when mine were small as a. I worked so had colleagues
b. Best friend outside of work was neither married nor had DC

But when dc started school and I gave up work...oh oh...I discovered a world full of Primary Babblers. Who knew that entire mornings could be spent discussing the poor quality of uniform. Fortunately my best friend has remained resolutely unmarried and childless.

YANBU but think you should replace 'middle-class' with 'aspirational'

I do think a lot of it is information overload - people are terrified of doing the wrong thing - and people trying to use their children to replace their career, so looking for payback on their efforts all the time and trying to be the best.

I was pretty much left to my own devices as a child and never had 'activities' arranged for me. I was naturally academic, which helps. I found a lot of my friends at Oxford had been brought up in a similar way (i.e. without being hothoused). I think it's good for children to be bored sometimes and not constantly expect to be entertained. Eating a bit of crap food never damaged anyone. I love all manner of trash, so would definitely buy my kids crap plastic toys (and then play with them myself)