to think that the middle-classes suck the very soul out of parenting (and life in generally actually)?

[bejeezus]

Ive been on/reading a few threads- about Unconditional Parenting, Attachment Parenting, Steiner blah blah blah. 99.9% of each of these 'philosophies' is common sense, the other 0.1% is deranged and warped interpretation of what started out as a description of common sense.

I am sick of people researching and 'reading round' subjects, analyzing and LABELLING EVERY activity and aspect of growing kids. People (and animals!) have been doing it since time began.

Is it because middle-classers have all been raised by nannies/ have no parental role-models/ have poles up their asses/ lack imagination/ HAVE no intuition/ have no faith in their abilities/ need to feel superior - WHAT is it??

What is wrong with intuition, spontaneity and getting it wrong? in fact I bet my socks there is some research some-where, that says that those are essential aspects of child-rearing and if you dont embrace them whole-heartedly, your childrens teeth will fall out/ they will loose the ability to speak and be in prison by the age of 25 years and 7 months.

Why am I bothered?;

I said on a Steiner thread in parenting that 'I hate wooden toys and all they stand for'

Then I got to thinking; actually I hate what they now stand for but I DONT hate wooden toys. I love wooden toys; the smell, the feel, the memories. But we used to scavenge the tips for timber/rob neighbours fence posts then get dad/grandad/uncle to help us build go karts/benches/huts with an excess of nail string and glue. Where is the soul and creativity in parents spending a weeks/ a months wage (or even a penny) on some imported sustainably sourced wooden toy fashioned by a stranger or mass produced in a factory? It has no more educational/ developmental value than a brightly coloured plastic toy. It is not more enjoyable for the child. It is more enjoyable for the parents BECAUSE IT LOOKS NICE IN THEIR HOUSE!!

Middle class parents are like the anti-Rastamouse;

'always there to make a good thing bad'

Class War- Bring it!

Hmm, yes I do find loud, uptight, over-serious, and over-thinking parents a little bit annoying.

But not nearly as annoying as attention-seeking, ill-informed blithering idiots making sweeping generalisations and ridiculous assumptions on my favourite parenting forum, mind.

lolololololol at swanker--

yes because middle-class people HAVE been historically oppressed JUST like Jews and homosexuals....Havent they?

and they have driven up the prices in the charity shops.

It is middle-class although not all middle-class people are guilty. Anybody who says differently has obviously no or little experience of life outside their bubble.

"Part of me is glad that I never discovered MN till my child was school age." Me too Portofino"

and me

thebestisyettocome yes I agree. I should probably have put a footnote to avert wrath 'I dont believe all middle-class parents are guilty of these accusations'

some of my best friends are middle-class you know

All those things annoy me sometimes, but I would categorise them as perhaps a certain sub-section of middle class, not middle class, if that makes sense.

I have little time for Steiner people, people who think the world will come to an end if their sprog drinks a fruit shoot, people who wank on about quinoa, and people who do 'show off parenting' in Waitrose ('Emily darling let's go and get some goodies for the Snack Jar, hmmm, shall we get some bilberries and some sunflower seeds, hmmm?'). But I think there's also a massive wodge of the middle class who are much more laid back and 'normal' than that.

YANBU and YABU

Is it because middle-classers have all been raised by nannies/ have no parental role-models/ have poles up their asses/ lack imagination/ HAVE no intuition/ have no faith in their abilities/ need to feel superior - WHAT is it??

I'm middle class but I was brought up very well by my parents, thanks. This sort of generalising is bullshit. I'm MC because I was raised by two MC parents and have a professional job and read the guardian and as far as these things matter I think that makes me MC. I am not a 'yummy mummy' and I do not believe in the overthinking, overanalysing type of parenting you describe.

YANBU to deride such parenting styles, however. I started a thread on here once to take the piss out of 'baby wearing' as a name/concept/philosophy and I think that's what you are talking about. You're carrying your baby from A to B - no need to make it a lifestyle choice. Co-sleep to get a better night's sleep - don't do it if neither you nor your child benefits from it, just to make a point about 'how you parent'. BLW because it's easier. BF because it's cheaper. Or don't. Do whatever feels right for you and your child, listen to your child's natural rhythm and follow it if you can, but don't make a bloody song and dance about it.

laquitar,,,,What about a Tiger mummy?

The lass who wrote the famous recent book; back peddled on most of it...said it was satire/

were we had?

bejeezus. Mine too

Bibity - well said

nothing would get discussed on here without sweeping generalisations surely?

I think that there can be just as much smugness from the "benign neglect" school of parenting as there can from the uptight school; each camp is just doing what it feels is right /best for its own brood, justifying its own approach and both methods will have their pros and cons, and there are massive amounts of crossover between the two.

I am a bit of both; largely fairly chilled, but with moments of research thrown in, when I feel like I need another opinion or a helping hand, or am interested in finding out whether other people have better ideas about something; and often the help is from mumsnet.

Vive la difference...

Steiner is not an American movement at all

But it is difficult to discuss this because I do think it is a middle class preoccupation - although it is wrong to make sweeping generalisations because it is judgey it is also important to frame what you are saying by.. Jeckadeck is right about this

I have had that discussion with a first time Mother (by this time I was on my third) who was lecturing me on how she never uses the word 'no' with pfb and doesn't have stair gates because pfb has to 'learn' to use stairs - yes i said all those who have been raised with a stair gate live in bungalows..... silly bloody cow.

I also experienced that 'loud parenting' super encouraging thing in a play park in Bath the other day - Boden Mummy - skipping about praising pfb for throwing sand...... I know these are stereotypes but they are stereotypes for a reason.

Agree with Hassled and swanker. Making abusive remarks about, what, roughly one-third of British society is utterly brainless.

Irritating people are irritating. HOLD THE FRONT PAGE.

At least the benign neglect devotees don't ram it down the rest of our throats.

I know someone who has changed her 'job title' on LinkedIn to "Yummy Mummy" AND written a little twee job description!! Yes, because that'll impress contacts who might offer you potential opportunities if you ever decide to go back to work!

Of course, she is a massive twat.

I imagine that being desperately middle-class would suck the life out of just about everything one does, not just parenting. I know exactly what the OP is talking about though. The trick is to use their insecurities as a source of entertainment

Good for you if you so confident in yourself and so trusting in your instincts that you feel well-equipped to make sound decisions. Well done. Why is it your problem or business if others don't feel the same and choose to do a little 'reading around' as you term it?

Who are you to decide that wooden-toys are only acceptable if they are made by someone known to the child and if not they are pretentious? I don't have a charicature of a grandad whistling a chirpy tune in his shed ready to make toys for my kids, sorry. Btw, I started off wanting wooden toys only, decided I was being a twat, boought some plastic ones and now have both. Over-all, I'd say the wooden ones are more value for money as the plastic ones tend to be programmed and a bit limiting, certainly the ones for babies rather than children. That's my experience.

Why do you despise people who just want the best for their children and maybe doubt themselves sometimes and want some outside input. What is so wrong with that? I agree that children need to see parents making mistakes and it is impossible and undesirable to be a perfect parent. However, you come across as incredibly judgemental so YABU.

greencolorpack you obviously haven't been to the Bethnal Green museum of childhood. Stuffed full of Playmobil, sylvanian families etc. (old stuff too)

I have read a few books about parenting - and I think I am a better parent for it. I would have been much more prone to interfere and show DS things (well shove things in his face and go 'look at the...') rather than letting him choose what he wants to do/play with. You can pick up bad habits from being badly parented yourself. People who don't need any help are lucky and probably had very happy childhoods with non-weird parents. I didn't though and I'm glad I've read the books I have because I don't want to continue the pattern set by previous generations.

My near namesake has her young kids doing 5 mile cycle rides without a break.....I am not altogether convinced. I never did it.

People whose analytical skills are poor make themselves feel better about their lack of ability by putting down those whose analytical skills are well-honed by claiming they "over-analyse".

Parenting is just as much a valid subject for analysis as anything else.

Pram1inTheHall. I believe the comments are in any way 'abusive', at least not in the way that I understand the word.

I think there is just a load more information available now, and we have far more choices open to us, both as parents and in general. When my mum was pregnant with me, she smoked and drank because no one questioned it back then. Now we're given advice from the moment we even think about trying to conceive, from taking folic acid to having sex when the moon is waxing gibbous or whatever ...

Yes, a lot of parenting is instinctive, but with so much advice readily available, we can't help (or I can't, anyway) looking for ways to make it easier.

Tiger mummy??

That should read "I don't believe the comments are abusive".