to think that the middle-classes suck the very soul out of parenting (and life in generally actually)?

[bejeezus]

Ive been on/reading a few threads- about Unconditional Parenting, Attachment Parenting, Steiner blah blah blah. 99.9% of each of these 'philosophies' is common sense, the other 0.1% is deranged and warped interpretation of what started out as a description of common sense.

I am sick of people researching and 'reading round' subjects, analyzing and LABELLING EVERY activity and aspect of growing kids. People (and animals!) have been doing it since time began.

Is it because middle-classers have all been raised by nannies/ have no parental role-models/ have poles up their asses/ lack imagination/ HAVE no intuition/ have no faith in their abilities/ need to feel superior - WHAT is it??

What is wrong with intuition, spontaneity and getting it wrong? in fact I bet my socks there is some research some-where, that says that those are essential aspects of child-rearing and if you dont embrace them whole-heartedly, your childrens teeth will fall out/ they will loose the ability to speak and be in prison by the age of 25 years and 7 months.

Why am I bothered?;

I said on a Steiner thread in parenting that 'I hate wooden toys and all they stand for'

Then I got to thinking; actually I hate what they now stand for but I DONT hate wooden toys. I love wooden toys; the smell, the feel, the memories. But we used to scavenge the tips for timber/rob neighbours fence posts then get dad/grandad/uncle to help us build go karts/benches/huts with an excess of nail string and glue. Where is the soul and creativity in parents spending a weeks/ a months wage (or even a penny) on some imported sustainably sourced wooden toy fashioned by a stranger or mass produced in a factory? It has no more educational/ developmental value than a brightly coloured plastic toy. It is not more enjoyable for the child. It is more enjoyable for the parents BECAUSE IT LOOKS NICE IN THEIR HOUSE!!

Middle class parents are like the anti-Rastamouse;

'always there to make a good thing bad'

Class War- Bring it!

god im going right off mumsnet - seems it full of total twats! Whats it got to do with you how others parent their children - unless one feels insecure about their own parenting skills these thoughts dont normally crop up! No im not middle class just cant stand stupid twats!!

Etalb, but the ethos of MN is how you ought to parent your children! Everyone doesn't agree on how best to do this of course, That is the whole point. I'd give it a while....

Thank god the internet wasn't around when mine was born, and mumsnet for that matter. I read 'Toddler Taming' in desperation but non of it was applicable as I had a ADHD toddler on my hands but didn't know it at the time. Didn't read any other books beside the NHS instructions that came with the baby.

BLW!!! Only just realised from this thread what it is. I wanted to encourage mine to move on because DC and me were ready. e.g bottles, cot, nappies etc. I got as bored as she did!

Have not read whole thread. But I do agree with you op. There are a lot of very middle class mums round here, they don't do Macdonalds, they don't do plastic toys, they don't do tv. I remember casually mentioning that we'd been watching in the night garden only for one of them to indignantly announce "what rubbish".

They complain at any slight thing at the school. They seem to have this rose tinted view of the world, where we all dress like victorians, eat food from allotments (even though they own £300K+ houses) and play with wooden toys. What worries me is when are they going to break it to their dcs. When are they going to reveal popular culture, computers, tv and are they going to expose it to them all at once? Because I can't help feeling it would be a real shock.

I wouldn't mind if they kept their view to themselves. But they don't, they write letters to the Head limiting the choice of teachers and monopolise PTA to dictate their views on others in a horribly judgmental way.

I work for a telecoms comany and have a 7 year old. No way would I want to hide her from technology. It will move so fast in coming years it is a positive advantage for them to be used to it. Cloud computing is the next big thing. Even your technobe granny will be able to access it, let alone your techno savvy dc.

mossip their kids are going to be the ones I remember from freshers' week at uni - let off the lead for the first time in 18 years, they immediately drink the bar of Tiger Tiger dry and pass out in a pool of vomit. Repeat 3 times a week for the next 18 months.

SHG or possibly tinier--moment has probably passed but just caught the request to explain my inconsistency [from one of you-computer to slow to keep flipping pages to check who, at this time of night]

I dont find reading itself irritating--how would I know if a person had read about BLW or UP for example, unless they were demonstarting that they had, in some way. Its the demonstration that I have a problem with;

Labelling- like I said, most of the 'methods' and 'philosophies' are what people have been doing day in day out for centuries-OK, so for some people it is not intuitive, and for probably all people-it is not ALL intuitive. But dont you just do research/read some books/talk to friends/argue with your mother and grandmother /scratch your head/make your decision and get on with it?

You dont LABEL what you have decided to do and join a club and declare that those that are doing it differently are failing their kids?

e.g. UPing--UPers declare that if you dont use UP methods (i.e. if you punish/praise or say no to your kids) then your kids will receive the message that your love for them is conditional-you only love them if they behave themselves, whether you intend to send this message or not. This is utter rubbish and it is superior, because we all know that having your kids know that your love is unconditional is central to their well-being. UPers also seem to believe that non-UPers do not use 'explaining' as a method

Anyway-I dont want to turn this into an UPing thread

I give my babies solid food in chunks that they can pick up and feed themselves with- I would deny that I 'do' BLW, to anyone who asked

to use mossips allotment example also;

I have an allotment, my parents have always had an allotment, both sets of GPs have always had allotments.

I dont do the school run in £60 flowery hunter wellies with a basket of carrots dangling from my fore-arm

and cheers all- it got quite cosy in here earlier by the looks

mossip you are so blinkered
you are also as bad as those you sneer at

sorry, haven't read whole thread, but want to put my pennoworth in anyway.

Can't stand the way some parents I know (sorry, they're all middle class) micromanage every aspect of their kids' lives.

eg, my own sister won't let her 12 year old DS choose his own school lunches!!

seems to me that 'concern' of the parents for their kids turns into 'ultra control freak parenting' for some, and that the plethora of 'helpful' books/forums/magazines etc etc encourages the inner control freak and desperation of some middle class parents.

kids who don't use technology at home get it at school ...just because we don't subscribe to your ideals does not mean our children are cosseted or hidden away from society

Oh, right, so this isn't a thread about middle class mums, it's a thread about Parenting Theory zealots who judge others loudly.

Pffft.

I think that 'hits the nail on the head'-it doesn't matter which book or philosophy they are following-it is all about control and micromanaging.

Sorry-forgot to put it was superdragonmama that I was agreeing with.

Fennel, your link is very funny.

Actually, this whole thread is hilarious. It's really brightened up my day

The 'wooden toy' approach is about personality type, not class. Some people do, (particularly) when they have a first baby, act like its a project and are very controlling about it. They do indeed make it joyless but I disagree that it has anything to do with class.

Loads of middle class people I know have a leave them to get on with it and enjoy themselves approach.

I do think it's funny when people go on and on about "parenting" as though it hasn't been done literally forever. Just get on with it already.

But then again my three year old has soccer on Mondays and T-Ball on Wednesdays and will start Tae Kwan Do in a few months and possibly swimming and I have to admit I am an avid food-label-reader.

This doesn't have anything to do with the thread, but my friend (who has a young daughter and is nursing) came to stay at my house overnight and help me paint my bedroom. She said her DH warned her not to scrape of any wallpaper because there might be lead paint involved and it might enter her breastmilk somehow. :o Again, nothing to do with the thread, I've just been chuckling about it for a week now. Some people really do overthink things, eh?

I do think the 'project' approach makes it joyless. Wooden toys are nice but if you are going to control every toy they are given, or come across it, negates the point of toys.

LeQ your PND posts made me tear up a bit. Oh God, it's so awful, isn't it? I thought I would never feel like myself again.

I was fiercely protective of DS and knew I would die if anything happened to him, but it wasn't until he was four months old that I had a sense of how much I actually loved him. I was rocking him to sleep and I cried and cried and have been desperately in lurve with the boy ever since. :)

There seems to be a lot of animosity toward so called 'middle class' parents, whatever you want to call that group of people. It's seems like a dislike and an irritation. But can't it just be that everyone parents differently, people have different values, a different set of cultural norms. Why is it annoying? For example; I don't like McDonalds, my kids don't know what it is, They don't watch TV in the main, just DVD but I'm not obsessive about it if they were round someons house, lots of plastic toys, lego spiderman so on and so forth. I just don't like McDonalds, to me it's just horrible, but my kids eat pizza or crisps say when they're at a party. But why is that so annoying to come people? I think it's like a hatred toward what is perceived to be 'middle classness', and even by middle class people themselves. I am middle class and so what?
As I posted earlier I was guilty in the past of buying into the whole parenting anxiety thing with my precious first born, but that's all gone out the window with DD2! It's just differences that's all

Cheerful Yank I have similar stories. My son likes dressing up; spiderman, knight etc. When friend came over, mum very seriously explained that they don't let DS dress in 'commmercial' costumes?!

Also i work in toy shop. A mum came in with 4 mth old baby. I knew it was a PFB when she started asking me in all seriousness and very earnestly, whilst perusing the animal hand puppets; 'Do you think my baby would respond more to a face (holds up lion face), or a Duck?, what's best?'. I wanted to say really that it doesn't make a difference, but didn't want to burst her bubble and recognised myself in her when my DS was 4 mth.

I'm an avid food label reader also, really big into it. But I am really into health, nutrition and all that stuff

Porto, what is cloud computing, please.

Just looked at Fennels link to The Mother magazine and now actually feel physically sick What a load of self satified bollocks that is...........