to understand why some people have a problem with abortion?

[LolaRennt]

I am pro choice first of all, just to get that out of the way.

But what confuses me is that on many threads I have seen if someone in a tiny voice dares to admit that they might have a an anti abortion view they get jumped on pretty quickly.

But surely if someone belives from a purely emotion point that abortion is the ending of a life you can't change that view simply by calling them a woman hater or abusing them? I can understand how pro choice people don't see abortion as a feminst issue or a human rights issue at all and can't get past the view that it is just ending a life.

I am a vegan and I don't wear leather or fur. I see it as murder. I know other people do it (even my friends, husband and family) but for me it will always be murder. Its a purely emotional view that go against what the vast majority of the western world see as normal. But there is nothing any of you could ever say that would make me change my mind. So maybe I can empathise better than some?

My belief is that women need safe access to abortion, no one likes the idea of abortion butit needs to be avalaible because the alternatives would be devastating. Wouldn't it make sense to approach it from that point of view to someone who is anti abortion? Accept that the idea maybe abhorent (and that they arent wrong for feeling that way) but it is a basic human right to not be forced to pregnant and that for many reasons it is the best choice for the woman?

Good point about the drug use Scarlett.

what a loat of emotive crap those prolife sites have on them ffs. you're a loon Queenmary.

why did you have to change your name to contribute to this thread?

FFS...what a bunching of bloody drama queens.

Lots of things are horrific bubbley; labour can go wrong, any kind of operation can go disastrously wrong. My wisdom teeth removal was a right carnage. Only I don't get to tell you how to live your life, as you give yourself the right to tell me or my daughter.
How about hearing horror stories about stillbirths, or severely handicapped babies born with their heads missing. Or babies that survive painful existences for months only to die. I know, lets have a description of rape while we're at it, you know like the kind that would produce a foetus that your caring heart would consider to precious to terminate.

Go on, I'm all ears.

Wow - look at the coping mechanisms kicking in - it's all exaggerated and dramatised is it? They don't really dismember the foetus do they? The foetus doesn't really look like a human being does it? you're all pathetic - face the bloody facts.

is that just what you do flippinada- not read the upsetting stuff so that you don't have to confront the reality of abortion?? so you can pretend its not a real baby??that it is just a bundle of cells and anyway your right to choose is far more important than a living breathing thing?? the thing is its not propaganda, the upsetting pictures are real, they aren't made up pictures used to make pro lifers all seem like nutters.

Someone earlier made references to nazi germany. Hitler managed to convince millions of Germans that ethnic cleansing was ok.He did this for years and has left a lasting legacy. Does it ever occur to pro choicers that perhaps you have been brainwashed too?? brainwashed to believe that you're rights are the most important thing and stuff everything else??

dadof2 - that's how I feel and what I said way back at the beginning if the thread. I still would never deign to tell another woman what she can do with her own body. I am and always will be utterly pro-choice, even if I can never see myself being able to have another abortion.

scarletts - do yourself a favour and step away from the thread if it's causing you so much upset.

I'm happy to discuss anything that is relevant to this thread meta - perhaps you can start a new thread for the others.

Wrt rape - does punishing the foetus (an innocent human life) right all the wrongs of the rapist?

Of course I mean bunch. But maybe bunching is more appropriate as there's more than one.

Does anyone else find this boohooing over emptive pro-life propaganda while tossing out all sorts of vile insults to pro-choice posters utterly sick making.

Can anyone imagine going to one of these women for help in a crisis?

"I use a different name for this"

Why, Queen?

Are you ashamed of your views on this thread?

...because a great number late term abortions have very serious medical reasons, ie the born child would die because of physical defects that would make its life misery. You know, the actual but outside the womb, where they need to breathe for themselves and grow up.

My friends that have had late abortions had to choose between terminating or inflicting a life of suffering to their baby. Passages like the one by queenmary may make your righteous heart bleed but really serve no other purpose but to horrify.

the actual bit. not but.

it's not a coping mechanism. I know full well what an abortion is and as I have said I thoretically agree with abortion up to term, though I believe this is very rare and not ideal. My abortion was done before 8 weeks and I feel happier about that. When I had my amnio during my recent pregnancy I knew it would be a harder thing to go through if I chose to erminate the pregnancy at 17/18 weeks. I would have still done it though because I prfered that to the alternative. That is my choice and I would have dealt with it had I made that decision.

yes... you are correct that a termination at 18 weeks is very different to that at 8 weeks. No one is dening that. Thankfully late abortions are not done as often as earlier ones. Still... if someone wants or needs to terminate at 18 weeks or later ten they legally can and there is nothing at all that you an do about that, thank fuck..

"is far more important than a living breathing thing?"

it's not a living breathing thing!

It's like those people who read misery lit for kicks, isn't it metal elephant.

Scarlett - if the thread is genuinely causing you that much distress, for the sake of your own health, don't read it.

Of course it doesn't right the wrongs of the rapist. But it can prevent further damage to the woman. And it's this living, breathing, traumatized woman that deserves more consideration, imho, than an embyo or a foetus.

Meta, why is it so wrong to acknowledge that they are horrific? If you think they are being carried out for legitimate reasons then why can't you accept the truth and the horror of it as a 'necessary evil'? Why do you have to avoid it and distance yourself from it to believe in it?

" When I had my amnio during my recent pregnancy I knew it would be a harder thing to go through if I chose to erminate the pregnancy at 17/18 weeks. I would have still done it though because I prfered that to the alternative. That is my choice and I would have dealt with it had I made that decision"

Who was it accusing pro-lifers of eugenics earlier?

"Does anyone else find this boohooing over emptive pro-life propaganda while tossing out all sorts of vile insults to pro-choice posters utterly sick making.

Can anyone imagine going to one of these women for help in a crisis?"

it's all quite naive and childlike really. I definitely wouldn't think it advisable for anyone to go to these kinds of people for help when making a choice about abortion. Much of what is being said shows a startling stupidity imo.

if someone came to me and said "I want to have an abortion, I have two children and can't afford a third and my husband has left me and I don't have a job" I would not say to them, ok then, lets get you booked into the abortion clinic.

I would say

1)what can we do to put you in a position to be able to cope with another baby?
do you need help with somewhere to live? if so i will help you get yourself sorted, you do not have to be homeless.
do you need help with finding a job? if so, what kind of thing can we get you doing? do you need to go back to college, if so lets apply together.
do you need help applying for benefits, lets do this together
do you need help with childcare while you work? lets get that sorted too.

you see, I don't believe women often have no other choice. They just have to be prepared to think logically and ask for help. There is countless help out there and pro choice are simply taking an easy way out by denying it exists.

So you acknowledge abortion is a necessary evil bubbley?

I'm not distancing myself, I wouldn't be on this thread if I were. I question your reasons for celebrating such a passage, surely you can see the difference?

" it can prevent further damage to the woman. "

You are assuming that the abortion itself won't cause any emotional, psychologicalor physical damage and you just can't know that in advance.

"Who was it accusing pro-lifers of eugenics earlier?" not me.
Godwins law into it?

" Wow - look at the coping mechanisms kicking in - it's all exaggerated and dramatised is it? They don't really dismember the foetus do they? The foetus doesn't really look like a human being does it? you're all pathetic - face the bloody facts "

Coping mechanisms Bubbly ?
Apparently everyones absolutely fine, no lashing out, no disproportionate anger and spleen.
Nothing at all out of the ordinary.
Apparently.