to understand why some people have a problem with abortion?

[LolaRennt]

I am pro choice first of all, just to get that out of the way.

But what confuses me is that on many threads I have seen if someone in a tiny voice dares to admit that they might have a an anti abortion view they get jumped on pretty quickly.

But surely if someone belives from a purely emotion point that abortion is the ending of a life you can't change that view simply by calling them a woman hater or abusing them? I can understand how pro choice people don't see abortion as a feminst issue or a human rights issue at all and can't get past the view that it is just ending a life.

I am a vegan and I don't wear leather or fur. I see it as murder. I know other people do it (even my friends, husband and family) but for me it will always be murder. Its a purely emotional view that go against what the vast majority of the western world see as normal. But there is nothing any of you could ever say that would make me change my mind. So maybe I can empathise better than some?

My belief is that women need safe access to abortion, no one likes the idea of abortion butit needs to be avalaible because the alternatives would be devastating. Wouldn't it make sense to approach it from that point of view to someone who is anti abortion? Accept that the idea maybe abhorent (and that they arent wrong for feeling that way) but it is a basic human right to not be forced to pregnant and that for many reasons it is the best choice for the woman?

Yes, although I believe now that I would never have another abortion, I felt nothing but relief after the one I did have, and have never regretted it. We cannot assume everyone is affected the same - this is the basis of the entire point.

And there is plenty of stereotyping going on from the other side - re 'feminist nutcases'...

Slug - exactly.

But surely it is up to the individual woman to assess her own risk as to whether or not she will be OK and deal with the consequences?

Who are you to make that decision for anyone?

If you don't believe in abortion by all means don't have one. No one is going to force you. But by the same token don't you dare presume to tell me what I can and can't do with my own body.

Thats the point, they cant, some of the stuff ive read on here is horrible and its all coming from the pro-life side.

And no i havent had a termination and probably wouldnt. But unless you have walked in somone elses shoes dont tell them what they should feel or do with their pregnancy.

Im hiding this now as its awful and done absolutly nothing to convince me not to have a termination if i wanted one. Some people sound unhinged. Dont bother posting back as i am hiding it

5DollarShake

" Please answer the question about the scare-mongering in your post on page 32 "

I'm not sure what your question was, but the post on p32 was a cut and paste of a webpage for a prolife organisation that offer long term support to women with crisis pregnancies.
Those were not my words, and I don't see why I should be explaining or defending them, beyond saying that I satisfied the demand for evidence that there are indeed groups out there that provide such support
( although sadly, for those whose problems extend to school fees, potential cost of childs wedding in the future, and a bigger house/car, that kind of help seems a bit thin on the ground)

5DollarShake
If your objection was to the claim that abortion carries physical and psychological risks to the woman, that is already well established.
This website is fairly lucid and clear about the respective methods of TOP and the attendant risks:

www.optionline.org/questions/considering-abortion/

It's well referenced too.

queenmary - I posted the section in question - here it is again, since you can't seem to recall...

"Physically, there are many threats to a woman?s future ability to carry a pregnancy to term. Miscarriages, ectopic pregnancies and sterility are often reported following abortions. Damage to the cervix, infections and heavy bleeding are common complications."

As a healthcare professional yourself - you know all this to be untrue.

This is scare-mongering - and it is worth recalling that this is an open forum and anyone could be reading this thread.

If you are genuinely against the occurrences above, then abortion should be legally performed in safe conditions.

differentnameforthis
" Interesting that you only post on termination threads, QM. "

I did what you did.
I use a different name for this.

Are you really a midwife QM? If so, you remind me of the midwife who denied me pain relief in labour quoting the bible. Something about Eve bring forth children in sorrow. She also told me to stop screaming which is quite difficult during an episotomy and forceps delivery with no painkillers. I blame her for my PTSD and find it quite ironic that a Christian's actions are behind me having an abortion should I ever get pregnant again.

Why?

why do you need a different name?

This week, while reading this thread, I have also been learning about the Victorian justice system. One of the things I learned is that policemen, judges, and Victorian society in general were inclined to be very, very lenient with cases of infanticide.

Now, if you were a baby-farmer who took payment for looking after children and killed them instead: you might well get the death penalty. But the woman who smothered her child soon after birth? The scullery maid who did the same, then wrapped up the child in a brown paper parcel and put it in the post to try and disguise what she'd done? Quite often they were given reasonably lenient sentences.

Now, the Victorians were famously not very nice when it came to crime and punishment. However, they were prepared to be very lenient on women who disposed of their unwanted infants - the ultimate horror as far as this thread is concerned. Why is that, do we think?

I also learned that throughout history there have been plenty of ingrained cultural practices designed to get rid of unwanted children. I think it's the Romans who left them on a hillside.

Makes what we've got now seem eminently sensible and increasingly merciful. Well done us.

crapola- your posts about the academic attainment of children in care have absolutely NOTHING to do with abortion. This is the first post that has made me truly angry. PLease come and visit me and see how my foster son and his siblings are getting on and tell me he should have been aborted!!! I am too furious for words.

Yes he has an iq of seventy, yes he has a reading age five years younger than what he is and yes he still wets the bed because he can't retain the information to know to go to the toilet before he goes to bed. But none of that is a fault.

5dollar Well I'm glad you agree that there's no point in using arguments such as 'you would put a young teenager through the emotional, psychological and physical trauma of childbirth' by continuing a pregnancy when you can not assume that everyone would be affected the same way and you won't know how they're affected by the abortion itself.

"fliipin, do you think every woman who has an abortion knows she is going to be ok?"

No, but then I didn't say that.

I am going on the evidence from people here who have given their own testimony.

5dollar are you surprised you didn't get a straight answer? I'm guessing not.

Well fifis - you won't see this but others may. Someone already is telling you what it is and isn't ok to do with your body - you can (usually) only get an abortion up to 24 weeks. Are you happy enough to hand over control to someone else at that point?

Slug - if you've decided you don't want any more children why don't you get sterilised rather than waiting for an accident to happen?

queenmary- i am in tears reading that, also being pregnant. I honestly do not know how any pro choicer can come back and see that abortion is ok. Someone previously said they would hate to live in Northern Ireland because it must be so oppressive. It is not, it just is one of the few places left to stand up and say no this is wrong.

queenmary - I suppose you are posting that excerpt to make those of us who have had abortions flagellate ourselves.

scarlettsmummy - and all the women who want abortions and who can afford it leave NI and come to the UK. Yes, problem solved indeed.....

Queenmary, what joy do you take by posting this description? Do you seek to educate or scare or disgust? What I find most foul in anti abortion propaganda is when it turns like a horror show, this is no better than pictures of aborted foetuses.

If you are constantly in tears and getting angry over things people are posting on the thread scarlett, maybe you shouldn't be reading it?

I agree scarlett. I feel ill reading that QM. Prochoicers seem to have to distance themselves from the reality of it to make it seem acceptable and yet they claim to have made 'an informed decision' while still referring to 8 week + foetuses as 'bundles of cells'. They disgust me. At least have the bloody balls to accept the reality of what you are doing.

I am aware that women leave Northern Ireland to have abortions, they leave the south too. But that is not a reason to legalise abortion for everyone (it is legal if the womens life is in danger).Some drug users go to Amsterdam to get high legally, does that mean that we should legalise drug use to facilitate them??

i havent read all this thread but i would like to say...
since having kids i find abortion a weightier issue , my position on a womans right to chose not to bring an unwanted child into the world hasnt changed but now i find it more difficult, i see it now in shades of grey rather than the black and white before i had kids.

What I find foul metalelephant is that you won't admit how horrific abortion really is and will hide behind your 'pro-choice' label.

Abortion should be done as soon as possible. Not sure anyone doubts that. But well done for posting something that may well traumatise- totally unnecesarily- anyone who's had a later termination, without any thought for the vast range of reasons that may have occurred.

But then hey, they deserve to be traumatised right queenmary.