Personally I think this debate would be far better for leaving the fraud aspect out because it muddies the water. Fraudulent claimants are in a minority, whether at the rich or poor end, and I think we're all agreed that they are wrong.
The crux for many people who agree with welfare reform is not the cheats- its the SYSTEM. people can be claiming exactly what they are entitled to, and have a standard of living which in some cases is better than people who aren't claiming - and I don't see how anyone can deny that's bonkers. I'm not necessarily talking better off in terms of literally more money , but better off overall once housing and essential bills are paid.
For example, when we had ds 1 I had no choice but to return to work when he was 6 months. Sooner than I wanted to, but dh's income doesn't support us. I couldn't turn jobs down on the basis of not having early morning childcare available(even though dh leaves for work at 6.30!) . We just HAD to find and pay for childcare. And people like us get 'sanctioned' in very real terms if we don't do this- we'd have got into rent arrears and lost the house. Likewise, my 'sanction' this week is putting up with god awful hayfever - because I can't afford the £16 or so quid prescriptions for the inhaler and tablets my gp prescribed.
I feel very sorry for the people on this thread who are having a hard time, but I wish there was less of the 'them and us' thing going on, because many non claimants also have a hard time. The system badly lets down the huge number of people in the middle, who pay out in taxes, but get NOTHING. Back - not even medicine from the 'wonderful' NHS and certainly not with the really expensive essentials such as rent, council tax, childcare, heating, school dinners......
This thread should not be about claimants v non claimants- it should be about all of us who are shafted.