David Cameron welfare reforms-no family will receive more than £25,000 a year.

[Hammy02]

Good idea? I think so. I can't believe a single family receives this much already in benefits. It is about the same as the average income so it would be ridiculous for any one family to have more in benefits than someone that works?

There will always be people who work and earn less than their neighbour who is on benefits. They will feel envious or hard done by. That is to be expected.

I would however say that the number of benefit claimants receiving such an amount is incredibly low. He uses these figures as they are headline grabbing and discussion making.

The government say these things so that they get lots of hard working middle earners angry. They want you to feel as though these people are all benefit scrounging feckless arses who refuse to work. That way you agree with their plans to effectivly starve hundreds of thousands of children and place more and more families into positions of extreme poverty.

How do you just cap the benefits for the "latter type"?

yes, my husband I have a joint income well above the national average- but we are still skint! we pay a huge amount in tax and it drives me mad that my tax is going to fund people who choose not to work. As well as working 4 days a week with the long term unemployed to get them back into work, i am a foster carer so i have a fair amount of experience of dealing with people who don't work and I feel fairly qualified to say that many are more than capable of being in work but just really don't give a shit as they have a decent flat ( I work for a housing association in Edinburgh and all our new builds are well kitted out with two ensuites and balcony and look like the kind of thing young professionals would choose), enough money to live on, and have a wide group of friends who also don't work so they don't feel why they should. It drives me mad. I actually get these people jobs, and within a few days they fuck it up because it is 'boring' or 'hard work' or 'starts to early in the morning'.

"I read it as families in receipt of welfare payments who continue to have children and have no intention of trying to gain employment."

In which case, should everyone who already has 3 children be offered a small payment to get sterilised? Population control (eco-friendly) & welfare claim reduction all in one go.

Queen of fecking everything- I actually think it should be in return for benefits after they have been unemployed for a prolonged length of time and have made no reasonable steps to find work. Otherwise their would be no incentive to get off benefits would there??

there, not their, apologies

As no tax or NI is paid on benefits, if you gross it up £25k is equivalent to a single earner on around £34k.

As the average income in UK is usually quoted as about £28k, then it doesn't seem so bad. Especially as being on qualifying benefits brings certain other things like free dentistry, prescriptions, eye tests etc.

25k a year on benefits is FAR too much for most families and I don't see a problem with making it the absolute maximum. Only a very small number of families should be entitled to anything like this IMO.

Someone earning 36k and paying back their student loan (under the current system) will be getting less than that - £24,952.36 to be exact.

The average income is for one person - is it not?

The figure being quoted for benefits is for a household.

Did you not watch 'poor kids' and see what being on benefits is actually like or are some people just listening to Cameron and the Daily Mail.
Course there are some who play the system but the majority trapped on benefits are syruggling and ceryaonly really skint rather than an i come family who claims to be skint. Not havi g 50p for theelectricity is skint ffs

I do believe in needing a safety net until getting back on your feet. Benefits go far further than cash, school dinners/ council tax etc., etc.

It occurred to me today that I've been on mn for 2 years now and there are a few prolific posters claiming 'bad luck' back then who still remain 'unwilling' to work. When I say unwilling, what I mean is there's been an awful lot of talk, but apparently no action. So yes, even on mn there are those who've chosen a life of state-subsidy.

25k. 12k would be housing benefit. Maybe £1k for council tax benefit. Then child benefit we all get. Actual income supportand CtC might be 9k a year. Not a lot to live on.

Average income for one person may be around £25K.... However, plenty work for minimum wage which probably equates to £13K.

I realise the £25K benefit limit would probably only be applicable to the minority, ie, larger families, but isnt all this about trying to stop long term unemployed having more and more children, and receiving more and more in benefit.

Does your employer award you a pay rise when you add to your family? No, I didn't think so.... Yes this government does in the form of Child Benefit and tex credits, etc,

Plus people working and earning earning 25K will still be entitled to child tax credit and child benefit themselves to top that up further.

I cant think of any alpone. I can think of posters who cannot afford to work because of lack of cnildcare affordability.

yes £25k is too much for your average family. that is why your average family doesn't recieve such an amount.

For a family without disability to receive such an amount in benefits they would have about 9 children (really can't be bothered trying to work out the exact figures)

The typical family will receive NOWHERE near that amount, and even if they did a huge proportion of that money would go in rent and council tax.
The unemployed aren't able to get up and move somewhere cheaper, they have to live where they can.

Even if the benefit is for a household that is irrelevent. They will have no rent to pay, no council tax and will also have child benefit which I am guessing is not included as it is a universal benefit.

I think the government does however need to look at how those on benefits pay for things like gas and electricity as I do think they are being exploited.

Those on the min wage get housing benefit, working tax credit , child tax credits and child benefit to top it up much higher. Just goes to show the cost of living in this country. A family in certain circumstances will need 25k just to survive.

also- housing benefit in most parts of the country is nowhere near 10k. as mentioned I work for a housing association and very few of our properties are more than £120 a week.

So when we lower/remove all the benefits, where are the jobs going to come from?

If we make benefits claimants into modern day slaves do menial tasks such as litter pickers, what will happen to the litter pickers, will they get made redundant and then forced to take back their old job to get their 'hand out'?

When families start getting evicted because they cannot pay the rent, who is going to house them?

When even more private LLs start refusing HB claimants, where are they all going to live?

having been on benefits(not now as things got better) we never got that amount and we have a severely disabled child, I would love ot know how these figures break down as I can assume most of is housing costs.
but until more social housing is built, people have no choice but to pay sky high rents, they can't move as new landlords will say no to them as they don't take people on benefits(where as an existing one might let you stay)

When I was on benefits I had rent to pay. My life on benefits was grim and in some ways I had it easier than others as I was only on benefits alone for less than a year. That meant I already had clothes, things for the house etc.

The big issue is how much it costs to live in this country.

Gross salary of £25k gives a (single earner) net income of about £19.3k. If it was 2 incomes (say £12k + £13k) it would be about £21.7k.

I'm trying to find a good recent answer to average household income - ONS quintiles suggest around £30k. I'll post again if I find better.

I wouldn't assume anything with regard to DLA - as disabled people are fair game under the current government. There is widespread condemnation of the attacks the current government seems to make on the disable community - children and adults. The assessment system is flawed and degrading and the changes are trumpeted as a move against people abusing the system. The actual abuse of the DLA component is actually quite low but it makes good headlines - in the meantime we are making people who have enough pain and difficulty in life suffer a bit more. Lots of people had hoped that Cameron's personal circumstances would at least make him more understanding of disabled people and their families but i've heard him speak on the subject and its scary how much he misses the point.
For reference I have a disability but don't currently claim anything, although I did get assistance through university and starting work....that little bit of money allowed me to work and i now pay tons of tax so feel that it was probably a good trade of for the government.

But Riven those pensioners who make up a huge portion of the welfare bill have actually paid tax and worked for most of their lives.