To be furious that a male nursery worker took DD to the toilet today

[heyhoplaydough]

I have always felt that it is inappropriate for male members of staff to change babies nappies or take young children to the toilet without a female chaperone. As a paediatric nurse I know that it is common policy for male doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals to have a female chaperone present when examining or carrying out treatments on children, if their parents are not present. Adult female patients are also given female chaperones during examinations where they are undressed. This is to protect their dignity and to spare embarrassment on both sides.

Why are these basic measures not in place in childcare settings?

On joining this specific nursery, I was assured that only female members of staff change nappies or take children to the toilet. I explicitly wrote in my DD's file, that she is only to be changed or taken to the toilet by female members of staff. Each time she has moved up to a new room within the nursery I have explicitly told her key carers the same.

I regularly ask my DD whether she went to the toilet and who took her, along with other questions about her day, like who she played with, what activities she did, what she had for lunch etc. Today she told me that the only male member nursery nurse took her to the toilet, without any other staff. She also said that she wiped herself and pulled her own knickers up, and does not seem at all upset, so I am confident that nothing untoward happened. However, I feel this was entirely inappropriate, and there were several female members of staff available to take DD to the toilet instead. I am absolutely furious that my wishes as her parent were not followed. Am I being unreasonable?

MIFLAW STOP I'm developing a crush!

Tiggaxx

I have thought hard about this thread and I should not of said 'day orphanages' not because people are angry about it but because some people have been hurt by it. I know some people don't have the luxury of my life style choices so I am sorry for any hurt caused.

I, as some of you know am of Romany heritage and we live our lives according to our rules, we look after our own from cradle to grave we do not leave little ones,handicapped ones or the old ones with 'strangers'. For example the old ones live as part of the family until they pass on whatever it takes we do it.

What you see as paranoid I see as taking proper care we operate on a totally different level of behaviour and morals. Are we right yes I think we are, in exactly the same way yous think you are right.

I do think it is a shame when threads like this descend it to childish name calling and personal nastiness.

Haven't we reached 1,000 yet?!

Morning lovely sane MNers. (and t'other 3) Dd is prob going to the beach later with her friend and the friend's dad. Do you think I need to hide a webcam in her cozzie?

I asked my friend (a social worker) to ask her (nursery teacher for severely disabled children) what they would both think about a 3 yr old being embarassed about their intimate parts. They both said they would immediately suspect abuse. It's just not normal for any 3 yr old to be embarassed. (More likely completely the opposite, running round waving it in all directions, and as we see from grown men on weekends when drink has been taken, this willy waving can last well into adulthood)

Not nice is it to turn it on its head like that?

Please, before you do your daughter lasting damage, by making her like you, get yourself some help. There are people on this thread that are beyond reason, and I suspect a couple of sock puppets as well as the fairly obvious troll, but you actually strike me as reasonable, if horrifically misguided.

I would be very interested to know though what's going to happen now? How will you ever trust the nursery again? What has your child's father said?

Beesimo - you deserve a ton of credit for coming back and admitting you were wrong about the day orphanages.

I 'know' you from other threads and I know you're of a different heritage to most of the MNetters on here, and have fairly robust views on certain issues, which have gotten you into bother on other threads as well . I have to disagree with you on the male nursery worker, but I can understand totally that you believe what you believe as a result of your heritage. Doesn't stop me wanting to see if I can change your mind though

I second what Rosie said, but then I am pretty much the president of the Beesimo fan club. :) She admits when she's hurt somebody and apologizes, always, and that goes a long way with me.

I cannot understand why any male nursery worker would take a young girl to toilet by himself

Words utterly fail me sometimes!!! I thought of several sentences and dismissed them.

Should we just say it is part of the job.

Do women want to take young girls to the toilet?
I thought it was just part of the job.

Looking after young DCs is very physical. What is the point of a nursery worker who is a spare part? Having to call on someone else as in 'Anna needs to go to the toilet-drop what you are doing and take her now' -'Lucy needs a nappy change'-'Ruby has been sick, can you change her clothes'-I should think that no one wants to work with someone who can't do the job.

A tiny, tiny percentage of men are paedophiles. I feel sad that my DSs are regarded with such suspicion because they are male. My DS used to babysit for friends when he was 17/18yrs-I can see that some people on here simply wouldn't have him, however well they knew him because he is male.So sad.

I am very cross about the sheer hypocriscy of the whole thing. Posters on other threads have said repeatedly that they take DSs of 9yrs into the ladies swimming pool changingrooms and that women, or even 14yr old girls, shouldn't mind- and suddenly we have 3 yr olds that need their dignity and female toilets! I bet the same people who believe that 3 yr old girls need their privacy and dignity are inflicting their DSs of over 6yrs onto women in changing rooms and toilets.

sorry -hypocrisy

I don't think you are being unreasonable or paranoid. I feel exactly the same way. Female sexual abuse does exist but is not on anywhere near the same level as that perpetrated by men. The vast majority of men will not be predators but unfortunately you never know - I would prefer to err on the side of caution with my own child, even if I got labelled paranoid for it.

My favorite babysitter when I was young was a teenage boy. I loved Jimmy with every bit of my four year old heart and remember him well to this day :)

I asked my friend (a social worker) to ask her (nursery teacher for severely disabled children) what they would both think about a 3 yr old being embarassed about their intimate parts. They both said they would immediately suspect abuse. It's just not normal for any 3 yr old to be embarassed

This was my feeling-unless an adult has made them aware of it-3 yr olds are quite unselfconscious. They would also see it as quite normal for any adult to take them to the toilet.

Beesimo

I am glad you regret using term day orphanage though I suspect it's only because of the level of anger on here.

Good for you and your culture. Despite what you may think or read in the press, us Brits also like to take care if our families, young and old

It's all very well for you to be able to stay home and look after your children but have some respect for those that can't or simply choose to work.

I am still waiting for a sensible reason as to why a man shouldn't take a child to the loo. Why are men being demonised? There us risk in everything we do. When you choose a nursery, hopefully you have a good look around ask other parents what they think, turn up at unexpected times etc etc.

Children are going to meet strange men (by that I mean strangers!) throughout their whole life and we are doing them (and men) a huge disservice by creating and continuing this belief.

Another question that still no one will answer. At what age dies an innocent boy become a potential rapist?

Beesimo, if you can have a reasonable debate then great, but if your going to back to how you were last night don't bother

What about all the thousands of children cared for by men who are not abused??????

The vast majority of men will not be predators but unfortunately you never know

I am very thankful that my DSs don't want to work in childcare. My DS was a great babysitter and I am really saddened to think that the attitude is 'he is male and might interfer with small DCs'. He is 100% trustworthy and I could bet my house on it. Some women are axe murderers-you don't make the assumption that you can't have a female babysitter because of it!!

Doctors only have chaperones to safeguard themselves-it is nothing to do with safeguarding the woman.(most doctors are to be trusted)

This thread has really saddened me. As I said further up, my DS is going into a caring profession. He has been a much in demand babysitter for many friends. And it makes me want to weep that outsiders will have been looking at him and thinking he is a pervert.

I think the extreme reactions on here have been nothing more than baying mob mentality. It is common practices in healthcare for male staff to have a female chaperone present when carrying out intimate procedures on young children. If my daughter need help wiping herself, I would consider that to be intimate actually and something that i am not comfortable with a male worker doing on his own. Male doctors and nursers manage to carry out their roles with young children perfectly well, with these few safeguarding measures in place. Surely the male nursery worker can carry out every other aspect of his role without feeling feeling he is missing out on anything by not taking young children of either sex to the toilet. If such a policy were in place, he would not feel singled out but would be completely protected from any false allegations or suspicions.

Actually, my post was mainly about how I choose to safeguard my DD and the fact that the nursery did not do what they said they would do. Not about the male nursery worker. Even in the light of a four year old being raped at a nursery being recently reported, all you 'mothers' have done is jump to the defence of the man (who I have said nothing to by the way). My DD is not affected by my views as she is completely unaware of them. My DH takes her to the toilet and baths her, but would not like any other men to do so.

I posted to see if there were any other balanced perspectives out there that might make me change my views. All that most of your responses have made me realise is the intellectual level of the typical poster on the AIBU part of the site. From the way most (not all) of you word your replies and get geed up by one another I see that in no other context I would take advice from you, so why should this be any exception. That was my mistake for posting here. I wouldn't ask a drunken crowd at a football match, or the audience on the Jeremy Kyle show for a reasoned debate either. As for the few of you who have tried to compare this to racism - ridiculous.

Heyho - I haven't joined a baying mob at all.

Please answer my question. Is it any more valid if I said I didn't want a black nursery worker accompanying my DD to the toilet? Or a lesbian? Or a jew?

I said the same thing to a friend of mine the other day. He's 30, a devout Mormon, ridiculously goodlooking, just a very nice and caring guy. He's desperately ready to be a dad but hasn't found the right woman yet and was thinking about adoption. I told him it could be very hard for him as a single man and he was shocked when I said that the whole molestation thing would come into it. It is sad, because we've got tens of thousands of kids in the foster care system here who'd be beyond lucky to have him.

I thought about this thread more than I should have overnight and the worst part of all of this (for me) is that it seems like DS' are being classed as second class kids.

If all males are always assumed guilty (just in case) and girls are kept away from them, where does that leave our sons? Or is it ok to just leave them to fend for themselves with these workers (supposed abusers)? If not, does that mean that only woman can go near all kids in a caring capacity?

Or (as I suspect) does all this suspicion only apply to girls because boys just dont get abused, right? Or has it not even occured to the people who agree with the OP that boys are children to (and will be the very males you treat with such disregard).

Heyho - I would be grateful if you could tell me how I am supposed to feel about people with your sort of attitude being around my DS. Who wishes to do a caring role, is a perfectly normal healthy male but would not dream of interfering or looking at or in any other way abusing any child of either sex left in his care? You are implying in your initial and other posts that there is something wrong with him changing nappies/toileting small children. Why? Surely safeguarding procedures should be in place to safeguard ALL workers and children, not just the ones that YOU perceive to be a bigger risk, because whether it's a bigger or a smaller risk, the risk is still there?

I agreed with you further up the thread about the nursery BTW - if they couldn't for whatever reason agree to your request then they should have told you and asked for you not to send your child.

lesson learnt then OP - dont post on AIBU .

I would also like bluesheep's question answered.

The only mistake on the part of the nursery was to say they would discriminate between workers. They should have been upfront and told you that all nursery workers do the job they are paid to do and they don't opt out.

Sorry to add to my post above. What message are we sending little boys when this is how people view men? Equality is just that!

Agreed Nuttychic.

Oh and Heyho - please can you tell me at what point my DS went from a child who needed protected to the situation where he is the person children need protected from.

And FWIW I don't think I have joined a baying mob and I think you have shown a disregard for what posters have actually said.

And another thing. Your DD will certainly pick up on your mentality no matter how well you try to hide your feelings.