To be furious that a male nursery worker took DD to the toilet today

[heyhoplaydough]

I have always felt that it is inappropriate for male members of staff to change babies nappies or take young children to the toilet without a female chaperone. As a paediatric nurse I know that it is common policy for male doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals to have a female chaperone present when examining or carrying out treatments on children, if their parents are not present. Adult female patients are also given female chaperones during examinations where they are undressed. This is to protect their dignity and to spare embarrassment on both sides.

Why are these basic measures not in place in childcare settings?

On joining this specific nursery, I was assured that only female members of staff change nappies or take children to the toilet. I explicitly wrote in my DD's file, that she is only to be changed or taken to the toilet by female members of staff. Each time she has moved up to a new room within the nursery I have explicitly told her key carers the same.

I regularly ask my DD whether she went to the toilet and who took her, along with other questions about her day, like who she played with, what activities she did, what she had for lunch etc. Today she told me that the only male member nursery nurse took her to the toilet, without any other staff. She also said that she wiped herself and pulled her own knickers up, and does not seem at all upset, so I am confident that nothing untoward happened. However, I feel this was entirely inappropriate, and there were several female members of staff available to take DD to the toilet instead. I am absolutely furious that my wishes as her parent were not followed. Am I being unreasonable?

I really have been CRB checked should anyone be concerned about my presence on this thread or indeed MN more generally.

No, Beesimo's posts are insightful. This is the mad mind of someone who thinks that men can't wipe a child's bottom without becoming sexually aroused.

Can you imagine being a the husband or child of someone like that, or Crap (still not convinced that Primal's for real)? Awful.

Why not though Primal? Why is it any different to a woman taking a boy to the loo? Or a gay woman taking a girl to the loo?

Please I have asked before for a reasonable argument but I haven;t yet seen one point which makes me thing - actually maybe....

It's incredible how pre-occupied with sex some pele are.

And I don't mean the mythical dangerous men out there, but some pele on this thread. It says much more about you than any perceived danger.

And not just regular, bog-standard common or garden variety sex, but all these adults having - or wanting to have - sex with children, seemingly.

"My son has male teachers who I really like and trust completely - but I still won't leave my DC alone with them". What exactly do you think is going to happen the minute they are alone? Honestly? is the teacher - a liked and trusted teacher - going to throw himself on them in a fit of finally unrestrained passion? I'm being ridiculous, but so is the scenario.

Fab post from needanewname.

I'm wondering if it would be acceptable for me to roll out my donald sutherland link at this stage, to the OP

I agree needanewname, I'd like it explained better, I just cannot understand the argument AT ALL

ROFL @ dooins DD's verbal diorreah

I am flabbergasted - the more I follow this the more I think how sad the world has become that people can actually now be so sexist and discriminative. Haven't we been fighting to abolish this for decades?

I have also been trying to recall a time I may have ever questioned DS about who took him to the toilet - I'd be more concerned he went and wouldn't be leaving a puddle somewhere.

FWIW My sisters partner has taken DS into the mens as well as my Ddad nad Dbro since he was 2 yo. Its never crossed my mind he'd be better with a woman.

primal why should a man not be allowed to take a child to teh toilet alone but women are? why? getting rid of men does not get rid of the risk of abuse.

And this is not just about being PC, I am so not PC (whispers - I even read the DM!!!!)

It should be about teaching our children to respect themselves and others, about their bodies and boundaries, its not about teaching them that all men are potenially dangerous.

"at 3, girls are starting to become self conscious of their body and I believe their female dignity should be respected - "

DD is nearly six, and she's most comfortable at home (and at my parents) naked, especially if its hot. She'll just strip off and has no issues with that. DH and I both will walk around the house naked, and she'll go in the bath with either me or DH (most time on her own, but she's happy to share the water). Obviously as she gets older, she's not going to be as comfortable, and both DH and I will need to buy a bathrobe but at the moment, the human form doesn't bother her in the slightest.

MoreBeta, I keep forgetting you're male (sorry)...

Obviously, you're only on Mumsnet because you're some kind of sexual predator

Primal, does that mean female workers can't take DC to the toilet alone too?

I nearly sent DS to a childminding couple this year. Husband and wife team. To carry out your reccommendations, it would have meant 4, 5 chi,dren would have been left alone if, GOD FORBID, the husband in question was taking a child to the loo...

Obviously, I specifically asked my DD who took her to the toilet because I did not want male staff taking her to the toilet, and wanted to know if it ever happened. She does not know I feel this way. I mixed that question in with other conversational questions about her day, like what she had for lunch, who she played with. I also ask her if she has been to the toilet before we go on long car journeys - it does not traumatise her. I will teach her to use the ladies loos, changing rooms when she gets older too - that will not traumatise her either. My daughter is not afraid of men, she has lots of male role models, contact with male family members and friends etc (they just do not see her naked).

It may be paranoid and sexist, but I am not comfortable with men other than my DH (even other male relatives) seeing my DD's vagina. It may not be a need of hers but it is my parental choice and something that the nursery agreed to. If the nursery feel I am too unreasonable for them to accomodate my wishes I will remove her from the nursery.

What if it were for religious reasons?

Nothing has happened to my DD in the past. Nothing has happened to me in the past. Awful things happen to some children and it is mostly at the hands of a very small percentage of men. To all those who cited Vanessa George (presumably CRB checked) to counter the recent case of Paul Wilson (presumably also CRB checked), I know that some (less) women abuse children too and that makes wish I never had to leave my children in the care of any strangers, where they may be undressed.

People - bloody autocorrect.

'The child of primal' - is actually a full-time geography/physical education teacher with a masters degree.
I think she did ok having me for a mother.

Good night

I'm really glad my DD had a male nursery keyworker, has a male (and quite frankly, drop dead gorgeous) teacher, a male breakfast club worker and also, a friend of mine has a male "nanny" who takes care of her children after school, who sometimes looks after my DD on playdates. It is good for children to have these positive male role models. Might be more of a chance for children to grow up not just seeing females as the "carers" which is what tends to happen. This is probably why we have less male teachers at primary age etc, as children grow up seeing only women as the carers, it is a feminist issue if ever there was one!!

Sorry OP - I don't have enough life left to read this entire thread but having just read your post above then I think it's safe to say that you have got enough problems to keep an entire room of therapists busy for weeks.

But what separates your DH out from the other men?

"What if it were for religious reasons?"

then you chose an alternative form of childcare where you get to chose the staff or look afetr her your bloody self!!

Am I the only one who can see a fair bit of trolling and sockpuppetry going on

Oh dear God your just barking aren't you op? Either that or wetting yourself at winding up the innocents with your talk of vagina gazing male carers.

But OP you say you ask her regularly who takes her the toilet? Can you not see that this is weird? She must wonder why you keep banging on asking this question, day after day, to - presumably - catch the nursery out?

Why do you regularly ask this question? Why don't you trust the nursery? Why are you so hung up on this?

The message will get through to your daughter, even if you think it won't.

So, heyhop you wouldn't allow a male doctor see her naked??!!!

I haven't read all the replies on here but I think you are being completely unreasonable and paranoid. I pity the poor man who works there if that is your attitude. I hope you don't let your DD know your paranoid fears or she will end up being terrified of men

And might i just add this to the pool - women can be paedophiles too, please excuse my spelling. Maybe NOBODY should take our children to the toilet and if they need to go the mother, clearly not the father, should be called into nursery to deal with it!!

What I still find bizzare heyho is that you automatically think that a man would want to look at your daughters vagina just because he is a man.

People will keep shouting the name of vanessa george as proof that it is not just men who abuse, so if you feel that strongly then i suggest you take your daughter out of childcare all together and home ed.

Yes awfull things happen to children and I will do my upmost to ensure that nothing happens to my girls but I will not accpet that all men are potenital abusers.

I will ask again seeing as no one wants to ask the question, at what age does a boy stop being an innocent who needs protecting and become a potenital abuser?