To be furious that a male nursery worker took DD to the toilet today

[heyhoplaydough]

I have always felt that it is inappropriate for male members of staff to change babies nappies or take young children to the toilet without a female chaperone. As a paediatric nurse I know that it is common policy for male doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals to have a female chaperone present when examining or carrying out treatments on children, if their parents are not present. Adult female patients are also given female chaperones during examinations where they are undressed. This is to protect their dignity and to spare embarrassment on both sides.

Why are these basic measures not in place in childcare settings?

On joining this specific nursery, I was assured that only female members of staff change nappies or take children to the toilet. I explicitly wrote in my DD's file, that she is only to be changed or taken to the toilet by female members of staff. Each time she has moved up to a new room within the nursery I have explicitly told her key carers the same.

I regularly ask my DD whether she went to the toilet and who took her, along with other questions about her day, like who she played with, what activities she did, what she had for lunch etc. Today she told me that the only male member nursery nurse took her to the toilet, without any other staff. She also said that she wiped herself and pulled her own knickers up, and does not seem at all upset, so I am confident that nothing untoward happened. However, I feel this was entirely inappropriate, and there were several female members of staff available to take DD to the toilet instead. I am absolutely furious that my wishes as her parent were not followed. Am I being unreasonable?

Sorry, "both", I meant "all". I secretly think that the OP has namechanged to either Primal or Crap, to try to make herself seem sane!

because crapola you are saying that all people in positions of authority with children should be in twos rather than alone with childrenetc. so that would mean TAs/teachers/doctors/nurses/counsellors etc this would mean extra staff so increased taxes. are you willing to pay for all these extra people?

Absolutely teaching a child to safeguard themselves as much as possible is what parenting is about.

It is ridiculous to tar all men with one brush. Irresponsible, actually, if you think about it properly.

Abuse knows no bounds. It spans class, race, religion, creed, sex and age.

Sirzy....I take it you can read, so why don't you read what I said. Posters have said children don't have modesty at three so a nappy in an area where they can be witnessed is no bad thing. I am astounded that anyone would think, after that woman in Plymouth and the guy who raped a toddler, it's okay for adults in daycare to be alone with children.

"My oldest dd is my third child, so she knew about modesty at three"

My oldest (well, only) DD is my third child and she knows f-all about modesty. She's 5.

Crapola - your idea of children being taken to the loo by 2 people sounds more reasonable but I;m sure someone will then accuse the nursery of operating a peadophile ring! And heaven forbid, what if it were 2 men!!!!!!!!

My DDs keyworker at nursery was a man, i dont know if he took her to the toilet or not, it didnt register with me - why would it? he was lovely. I have to say the dynamic between male workers is different, but its good different. This is a wind up isnt it, someone please tell me its a windup

Twos when the child is alone.

Most places where children are alone, like TAs taking extra lessons, are in classrooms where they can be viewed through a window or whatever. I can understand that men are viewed with more suspicion, that is because statistically they are more likely. Why is that so hard to understand? and as women are also abusers then every measure should be taken.

"Fucks sake, are we saying that we, just like the parents where nursery staff have abused children, trust nursery staff so much that we're willing to risk our children? Thank fuck I've never used a nursery"

Did you miss the bit about how the vast majority of child abuse takes place in the child's home?

what a sad thread. op - you are bonkers.

i feel sorry for all well meaning nursery workers and though i accept that there is a risk of sex abuse anywhere out in the world for my dd i still do not assume the worst of people. and i live in plymouth, about a mile from vanessa george's nursery. i had to explain in detail the whole concept of child sex offenders to my muslim service users and why all parents of nursery chuldren in plymouth were written to about camera/phone policies. that was a hard work conversation!

but i digress. there are two male nns at my dd's nursery. it has never occured to me to find out whether they ever change dd's nappy - why would it?

when dd was born my dh felt uncomfortsble about changing her nappy for ages - for no reason than that he felt uncomfortable touching her being a man. it was absurb to the point where he was cringing every time he had to remove nappy cream/poo from her genitals and got quite upset about it. a have a friend who's dh was the same about getting in the bath with their ds's saying it made him feel uncomfortable. this is a really sad state of affairs.

"Most places where children are alone, like TAs taking extra lessons, are in classrooms where they can be viewed through a window or whatever"

what about counselling sessions, residential homes, hospital sidewards?

Perhaps the answer is that men stop abusing children and then their gender can escape these accusations.

Are we all avoiding the fact that many homes have men (AKA child-abusing perverts) in them? They are near our children and may even have physical contact with them. Some children even call them "Daddy" and cuddle up to them. It's terrifying.

Wannabe - I know the majority of child abuse happens within the home environment, I was talking about abuse outside of the home - Do you have those statistics?

I was a scout leader for six years and I got no end of stick from people about it. Mostly it was just piss taking, but some of it was serious.
It pisses me off that men are unable to do these things without comment or outright suspiscion. You and and your kind OP.

I don't know I'd yabu or not tbh.

I just asked my DH whether he would be ok about a man taking our DD to the toilet or changing her and he said he would. And so would I. But the sad thing is that neither of us know why we feel like it. Neither of us have ever had anything bad happen to us it was an instant uneasy feeling when we discussed it.

Crapola, are you planning to home educate?

To show you what a 'non-issue' most parents see this men toileting is I have to tell you this.

It has just dawned on me in 2 classes in my SEN school there are male teachers. The children both male and female are toileted (most are incontinent) and no-one has ever thought about the fact these males are changing girls (aged 2-11). It's rare as the support staff mostly do it but when necessary they are not going to leave a child with poo up their back and down their legs are they?

"Perhaps the answer is that men stop abusing children and then their gender can escape these accusations."

just the men? are women free to abuse as they please then?

Safeguarding children is very different from expecting male and female workers to be treated differently.

Of course parents should be making sure that the correct safeguarding procedures are in place but that is a completely different issue to Male v Female staff members IMO as the sex of the worker is irrelevant.

So, given you know most buss happens int he home, do you take precautions to ensure your children are not left alone with any male family members?

Op let's pretend YANBU.

Your current nursery have failed to meet your requests. Withdraw her. Due to the difficulty in finding all female childcare setting look after her yourself. She is safeguarded and I'll know for certain my DD and DS can never be subjected to your bile.

Btw yab batshit crazy U.

Im just so pleased to see there are in fact other sane people left. Having read this thread and posted A LOT this morning the only good thing about it, is seeing that most people feel the same way, Honestly, with some of the threads lately, that little fact makes me jump for joy!

I do wonder if the OP didnt start this thread just for the windup. My bloody pressure went through the roof when I first read it!

Abuse. Not buss.