to find some modern aspects of feminism patronising to women?

[glitterkitten]

I say "modern aspects" as i am more than aware that historical feminist activism has led to my being able to work in a professional job, has given me choices, has improved the general quality of life for women since etc etc.

An example of what i find patronising to the extreme is the recent protest by feminist groups at the opening of the Playboy Club in London.

wild haired, wild eyed women waved placards and protesting about how playboy exploit women, how evil men were manipulating women and that essentially, women who worked within such industries needed to be saved.

how can these women think that they need to save other women, who are simply exercising their right to make independent choice regarding how they make a living?

these women will deny / ignore the fact that some women working in such an industry (in all its guises) CHOOSE to earn a living that way. they earn a good wage, shock horror, they may even ENJOY it!

i find it so patronising. Intensely.

as i said above, i work in a professional career. i have no issues with strip clubs, lap dancing bars, playboy etc. i have accompanied my husband to such clubs on occasion. those women if anything, are taking advantage of the men who sit and dribble at them. the women have the last laugh with the money they make which is undoubtedly higher than the national minimum wage. would a feminist seek to tell me i am wrong??

I also hate what the playboy empire promotes as 'beauty'.

Unless you stick thin with giant DD's and lips to match, bleached blonde hair and dressed in pretty much nothing then your not beautiful enough.

Do men really like this look?

I do not believe that there are many women working in this industry who genuinely choose to do so. Of those who do, I would not be surprised if many of them were not already damaged in some way. Allowing the sale of one's body as a commodity does not exactly suggest much self respect.

Any argument that lap dancing etc is "empowering" is absolute nonsense. It has nothing to do with enhancing female sexuality or female enjoyment of sex: it is all to do with facilitating male sexuality.

Slug is right about the connection between the pornification of culture and risk to individual women. I'm a bit loathe to blame the women though: it is men who demand this stuff and men who make most of the money out of it

I think there are two subtly different issues here: the protection of women from crime, and the objectification of women.

The latter is inextricably linked to the former, but the motivation to protest on each issue is different. One is driven by practical concerns. The other is more political.

"leathery old octogenerian"

Careful. The OP got flamed for the use of unnecessary adjectives. Funnily enough, I don't think those who objected will have a problem this time.

OP is expecting some idiot educated person with a crap justification sophisticated argument to describe themselves as a 'pro-sex' feminist and explain how very liberating the sex industry is for wankers women. OP will hopefully be disappointed.

op feminists seem to believe women are incapable of makin their own choices and are all brainwashed by the patriachy, that applies if the women wants to wear a burqa or wants to be a stripper, either way she is deluded and thick and cant think for herself, and she should instead let the feminists think for her, and dress and act in a way that is acceptable to them.

He wouldn't look so leathery if he wasn't permanently photographed groping nubile 19 yr olds

YABTU! I've always been a feminist ever since I can remember but since starting to read the Feminist boards on MN I'm starting to become a radical feminist. I can kind of see where you are coming from but honestly you need to open your eyes. I used to think things like Playboy and lapdancing clubs etc were "cool" in my younger days but they're really not.

For me it started with learning what the Bechdel test was. I started seeing all the films I was watching in a brand new light. Something like 99% of films fail to pass the Bechdel test. It's unbelievable how everything in our society is geared towards men, EVERYTHING! Even DH has started to think "shit, what's that all about." The only reason you think playboy etc is a woman's choice is because you've been brainwashed. As has everyone else in Western society.

We're brought up with this shit it's all testosterone fuelled crap. All about men for men and women are commodities which can be bought and sold. Seriously what little girl thinks "I want to be a lapdancer when I grow up, or a Playboy bunny, or porn star or a WAG". Why would they think that (and some do) if they weren't brought up in a man's world where these things are presented to them as things girls should want to do.

Blah, your post just shows how ignorant you are. Open your eyes, would you like you're little girl to grow up and be a Playboy bunny?

well there was a 999 post thread on wearin jilbaab and what i understood from it was that the femenists feel that the women who wear it are some how coerced by the patriachy in to wearin it, and that it is aainst femenism? am i wron? because there is not an equivalant dress for men women shouldnt beable to choose to wear it as it is unequal,

this seems quite similar, because there isnt an equivalant industry for men women shouldnt choose to work here, and if they do they are supportin oppression,

and if women do choose to wear burka they are supportin oppression as some people are forced to wear it?

I think it is important to point out that most feminists do not support the banning of the hijab, and would support a woman's right to choose what they wear.

This is rather different to banning lap dancing as a commercial activity.

You're throwing an awful lot of stuff into a single pot there, talking about trafficking of women and playboy in the same breath.

How does that help?

They are both part of the sex industry, and many women working in the sex industry will move about within different sectors of it. So somebody who works for Playboy in various capacities is likely to also work in different areas of the sex industry.

if there was no market for it, it would go out of business, same as everything else

women want to do it to make "easy" and good money - if men are daft enough to pay to go to these clubs, more fool them

It's called making a connection, MrsBethel, or joined up thinking, or how one thing affects another.

I think this sort of huge commercial venture which as it's selling point uses women is a shit pit and has ramifications for all of us.

Of course if there was no market for it it would go out of business. That is why advertising was invented - to create needs and wants.

The fact that there is a market for it is not a justification for its existence. There is a market for fire arms and dogs from puppy farms.

Where does it get you, though?

If you want to clamp down on lapdancing, ban some clubs, heaviliy regulate others; then you might get somewhere. Lots of people would vote for that.

Getting hystrerical about playboy just guanrantees no-one is going to listen to you.

Marking plave

Gosh, OP, more CAPITAL LETTERS for EMPHASIS. And exclamation marks!

My theory about posts like this being a form of prescribed cognitive behaviour therapy still holds good, I reckon.

If associating playboy with trafficking of women isn't hysterical, what exactly is hysterical?