to find some modern aspects of feminism patronising to women?

[glitterkitten]

I say "modern aspects" as i am more than aware that historical feminist activism has led to my being able to work in a professional job, has given me choices, has improved the general quality of life for women since etc etc.

An example of what i find patronising to the extreme is the recent protest by feminist groups at the opening of the Playboy Club in London.

wild haired, wild eyed women waved placards and protesting about how playboy exploit women, how evil men were manipulating women and that essentially, women who worked within such industries needed to be saved.

how can these women think that they need to save other women, who are simply exercising their right to make independent choice regarding how they make a living?

these women will deny / ignore the fact that some women working in such an industry (in all its guises) CHOOSE to earn a living that way. they earn a good wage, shock horror, they may even ENJOY it!

i find it so patronising. Intensely.

as i said above, i work in a professional career. i have no issues with strip clubs, lap dancing bars, playboy etc. i have accompanied my husband to such clubs on occasion. those women if anything, are taking advantage of the men who sit and dribble at them. the women have the last laugh with the money they make which is undoubtedly higher than the national minimum wage. would a feminist seek to tell me i am wrong??

Really? Wild eyed? Was the describer a man by any chance ;)

The point is ZumbaRumba, in a truly liberal society you need a good reason to ban things. You don't ban things on a whim. And hand-wavy arguments or mere guilt by association are not enough.

This ISN'T a wind-up?!

"i'm an intelligent, independent woman"

Really?

The sex industry is in many ways regulated already. I live in a city where brothels are licensed as "saunas" and red light "tolerance" zones are created (always with unhappy and harassed nearby residents). Once you go down the licensing route, you risk legitimising social stigma which is a valuable control on expansion. There are also many activites which require to be licensed which are not ie I suspect the more underground undesirable activites would continue completely unlicensed, despite any requirement for them to be so.

Interesting though that there is actually quite a demand for gay male prostitution in Edinburgh but the encounters tend to be more fleeting and take place outdoors - there are a number of lovely tourists spots and wooded areas which the heterosexual would be advised not to linger at night, and condoms litter the area after a night's usage. No-one ever talks about licensing these activites though, they claim it doesn't exist or is too minor.

I'm also wary of licensing and regulation of the sex industry because it tends to attract an element which want to do so for their own purposes and the workers in those industry tend to be vulnerable and easily exploited. In other words, they are not necessarily the main beneficiaries of increased regulation.

ok, so my OP description of "wild haired wild eyed women" has clearly caused some offence, for which i apologise and will accept that this was based on one news report, showing said protesters. i do not believe all feminists are of that description.

Its not that, its the fact that your OP concentrated purely on the appearance of the protestors, rather than their arguement.

i find it interesting that it was suggested by nijinsky that i went to a strip club on my husbands suggestion. that's a presumption which in itself suggests that i, as a woman couldn't possibly have suggested the visit. i find that too patronising!

It wasn't a presumption actually. So you are saying you would go to a strip club on your own? Just for something to do?

Well, if thats where your personal delight lies then who am I to stop you? Be aware though that its not to everyone's taste.

Actually OP I'd be interested if the description of a bunch of blokes protesting would be 'wild haired, wild eyed'. THAT is part of the point. What the women look life just detracts from what they are campaigning against.
The whole point of a description like that is to make you think against them, rather than with them, so you yourself don't think you are like the wild-haired.

pfffft- ok marianne. would it make you feel better if i were of low IQ, unemployed, a "poor little woman who's such a silly little thing she can't form her own opinion".

if that would make you feel better, you think of me in that way.

and the patronising continues....

that's exactly my entire point. it appears that feminists believe that a woman who doesn't have a problem with UNEXPLOITED/UN-COERCED women working in such industries must be thick. way to promote women!

the description thing has taken over from the substance. and yes, i would describe men as "wild haired and wild eyed" if that was my observation.

doesn't make me a woman hater

If you saw a man protesting with a crazy beard and scabby clothes you might mention that fact too. Link us to this report OP so we can see if it really was worthy of mention...

the report was a BBC news report meltedchocolate,

and ffs, "wild eyed"- they were clearly passionate about what they were saying which you could see in their eyes. hence that description. i didn't mean they were crazy animals-

and wild haired they were- it windy!!

Reality-

you see!! you yourself suggest there is no such thing as a woman who happily chooses this work. just because you haven't met any....

you are taking my point too far- i am asking about women who choose this line of work.

for missing my point, are you also thick??

Glitterkitten.
If it was possible for only unexpoloited, un coerced women to work in the sex industry, then you may have a point. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. Not even in the Playboy Clubs. What do you think happens to the bunnies who get a little bit too old to be the front womwn for the industry any more?

If you ahve a daughter, how would you feel if she became a prostitute?

wild eyed IS used as a negative term.
I seriously don't understand your point. These 'unexploited' women and yourself - who frequents them with your OH - are supporting and validating the industry.
DO you make sure when you go to these clubs that you check the girls haven't been trafficked, aren't on drugs etc?

Yes I'm sure you don't sit and have a good giggle with your DH.

And yet, here you are wondering why people are questioning your intelligence.

I actually was expecting lots of wild looking women but....
I see men and NORMAL women

Glitterkitten - is the sex industry a good thing for women?

The BBC is hardly balanced journalism is it.

Some of your university friends may have "done a turn" at a strip club and enjoyed it but in my experience most women who work in the sex industry have been forced into it by men.

That is why feminists are against it - part of the patriarchal society in which we live. Can you honestly say that you never experience sexism in your life?

Every woman should have the right to do as they choose - the majority of the women in the sex industry don't.

The more I think about it, the more I draw conclusions between enhanced reuglation of the sex industry and exploitation of the vulnerable women working in them. For one thing, it is nearly always men who claim to be interested in increased regulation of the sex industry. For another, they nearly always claim that male prostitution isn't big enough an industry to be worthy of consideration. But thats only because male prostitutes don't set themselves up in brothels or red light zones. If you had to license all the male prostitution that goes on in Edinburgh, it would be an enormous task, and impossible to do because in many cases its a secret exchange. But license the women, put them in brothels and tolerance zones?

i believe my query has been answered by the nature of the wildly hysterical responses.

if ever there was an opportunity for intelligent debate and perhaps education (not just for me but other readers) that has been lost in amongst the presumptions, insults and lack of ability to respect that some women can make their opinions.

for future reference, the feminist cause may achieve more if their advocates approached their questioning with a little more maturity.

i'm done