to believe that most feminists are in actual fact giving women a bad name?

[Casey76]

I, along with most women I imagine are grateful that women fought to give us a vote.....

However I believe that things have gone to far..I hate women who moan and bitch about how they can't have everything!!!!!!!!

No your damn right you can not have everything ...if you go to work full time when your children are young, YOU WILL MISS OUT!!!!!

Why should women have it all???

I believe that most feminists think that they are more worthy of having everything then men and guess what you are wrong...men dont have it all...most men still work full time and still miss out on their children..

Men used to provide for their families...Men used to have a little pride...I don't think that that those women all those years ago wanted things to go this far...where some women see men as useless and think they can do everthing with out them..including having children...fair enough if you split up and you end up a single mum thats one thing but choosing to have a baby alone is just plain selfish....women should not be allowed to use a sperm doner if they are single..

So you feminists who think you are better then men and that you can have everything..YOU ARE WRONG...I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!

Just to say as well that "feminism" has never mean't the same thing to all feminists. Different people interpret feminism in different ways. Thinking all feminists believe the same things would be like thinking all Christains believe the same thing - there are commonalities, but lots of differences.

i feel sorry for men.. :(

Fathers have as much right when it comes to their children i know some times behind doors reasons make it different but same as some mothers..

But in most cases a couple break up and the family is spilt up..

Mother gets the children daddy gets them on weekends.. (in a nice case)
I could not imagine only seeing my children on weekends it would break my heart .. Why do people think it would not upset daddy just as much.

And of course then you get a lot of mums who take THEIR rights way to far and rule the children right over the dad drag them through court make up lies
Stop daddy seeing them because they have a new relationship etc Its horrible and should not be allowed to happen it takes two people to make a baby and both people have equal rights to the upbringing of that child put on the other foot and let a mum go through what dads are somtimes put through i bet the law would be changed very quickly if they raised the subject of a womens right.

one
two
three
four
five ( and particulary interesting)
six

do you really need more?

I'm a feminist, I have a large circle of feminist friends and acquintances and NEVER have a met the type of '"feminist" you are talking about OP.

I'm wondering whether these 'feminists' you've apparently come across are in fact 'feminists' you've read about in the daily fail.

"Feminism is hated because women are hated. Anti-feminism is a direct expression of misogyny; it is the political defence of women hating." ~ Andrea Dworkin

daily mail :o

primalscream
i call people "darling"all the time[shock horror]-
men/women/young/elderly-the lot.
i also cheerfully say thanks when someone holds a door open-whever they are-i also hold doors open for people-so much better than letting it slam into theyre faces,
i do have some very strong views though-i guess you have to pick youre battles eh!

YABU, because I think you're mis-characterising feminism or "most feminists". As others have said, it's not about hating men. It should be about men and women respecting each other, and women having genuine choices about what they do.

OP you are wrong when you say that men used to provide for their families - it's actually a very recent and probably extraordinary phenomenon. Before the 19th century when more people worked from their homes work - including domestic work - was much more of a shared enterprise. There wouldn't have been such a conscious divide - there was the work that had to be done to keep the family going and everyone contributed to it. It's a bit of a victorian middle class invention this notion that men should go out to do work and women stay at home and are not economically active. I really agree with the posters who have said that it's not about looking down at SAHM, it's that what they do should be valued. There is another thread on here at the moment about tax deductible childcare - there are places in the rest of Europe where the family pay less tax if one parent stays at home with the DCs. I think that would be great.

My husband and I chose to have children - and share responsibility. He had a year at home when DS was little, now I am working PT and he works FT but he still doesn't expect me to do everything. I am proud to call myself a feminist - I wear high heels, make up, love looking after my children but also drink pints, watch far too much cricket and go out of the house to work. The notion of having it all is bonkers. As long as you can choose, and I think too many women still don't get to make those choices, or find that the equal world they were living and working in pre-DCs isn't quite the same after maternity leave.

Personally, I need to work outside of home because it makes me happy and fulfilled and a better person to be around. I don't think I should be judged for that - I'm missing out on some things, but so are SAHMs. E.g I think the point about economic independence is a good one. We have shared income but I still think women who get into a situation where they have little capacity to earn make themselves vulnerable

I am grateful to all those women who've put up with being bullied and mocked for being feminist to get us where we are and think it's important to keep making the point in a moderate and balanced way.

years ago i remember fighting with women for the right to work[women were seen as "no good"for leaving theyre children-men were saying"theyre taking our jobs"!
these days sahm now have to defend themsevles-cant win.

The first article - you know for a fact that there are dozens of threads by feminists saying the exact same thing on the Feminism boards.

The second article - demolished here

Third article - wtf? And feminists are accused of being manhaters?

Fourth article - discussed here

Fifth article - see comment for the first one

Sixth article - Would love to discuss this if you want to start a thread. I seem to remember she turned up on a thread once, but can't find it now.

It's clearly Making Shit Up Sunday round here. Woman does not equal Feminist. Not all Feminists think alike. Neither women, men or feminists are a homogenous group.

I like your link five, Primal!

OP, I'd agree with your tile if you'd said "some feminists". But your opening post is just bonkers. YABU.

It doesn't matter where my links came from - my argument was that I could produce media evidence in support of the op's views.

but just to balance things out - here's a report from the
communist manifesto

you kind of lost me at the bit that woman should not have babies on their own get a grip op

article five is interesting, primal.

I can't work out whether we have come so far with the feminist agenda that women can choose to be well paid lapdancers, or whether everyone has forgotten about feminism and can't see a problem with lads mags peddling their particular brand of "knockers out" entertainment....

Msrissoto and goblin child think you might have lost your sense of humour. This whole post cannot be taken serious as it is designed to get a rise. As a good well rounded wholesome person I was taking the piss out ofit. I am sitting here on the couch doing this while my partner and kids are in the kitchen making home made pizza. I am not a feminist I am an equal, to him, to my kids and to you both.

TFO - feminism told women they could do what they bloody well wanted - no shame, no restrictions, do what you like - and they disguised this 'progression' as 'womens rights' - so now we have young girls selling their bodies in an almost respectable way and a porn culture out of control. ( which feminists hate but were instrumental in it's creation )
And Who do you think buys the padded bras & 'porn star' T.shirts for 8 year olds? - it's their mothers.
The Feminist movement has done some great things, no one would deny that - but it's also been responsible for a lot of societies wrongs and unless it accepts and addresses criticism it will continue to receive negative press.

And AyeRobot - I'll defo take you up on that!

but I don't see how feminism is to blame for inappropriate t-shirts.

And I think if you want women to choose, you have to respect their choices.

theres a few about ,InTheNightKitchen

"I think feminists gave me more work. Before I would have only taken care of house and kids and my dh would have earned a living, done all maintenance to the house. Now I have to do more than my fair share at home, with the kids, and work, and study as emphasis on woman being qualified, and I have repo help with the gardening, DIY, decorating. Previously I would not have been expected to sit with a bunch of drunk men on a Saturday watching shitty football, now I offend if I dont then offend even more if I dint make the rolls. Wtf yeah the vote was well worth it. Lol"

how the hell is it anyone else's fault that you topok on more than you can handle? how is it anyone's fault that you chose to marry a man that doesn't respect you enough to do his fair share? no-one made you have chidlren or go out to work whilst raising them. you chose the life you lead. if you chose badly then you only have yoruself to blame. no-one made you do any of those things. stop blaming otehr people for you own life.

I think Men are wonderful creatures who can and should be able to have (almost) everything:

the chance to have an interesting career and still have time for their families

nappy changes and snuggles and story time

a say on how the kitchen is run and the right way to fold towels

a chance to discuss finances and other important affairs with an intelligent adult

an equal voice when it comes to child rearing and discipline

someone to help out with the breadwinning if needed and desired by that particular family

a chance to be a SAHD if suitable to the needs of that particular family

a fair chance of custody in case of divorce unless there are specific problem relating to that particular man

and plenty of housework!!!

'I think feminists gave me more work. Before I would have only taken care of house and kids and my dh would have earned a living, done all maintenance to the house. Now I have to do more than my fair share at home, with the kids, and work, and study as emphasis on woman being qualified, and I have repo help with the gardening, DIY, decorating. Previously I would not have been expected to sit with a bunch of drunk men on a Saturday watching shitty football, now I offend if I dont then offend even more if I dint make the rolls. Wtf yeah the vote was well worth it. '

'Msrissoto and goblin child think you might have lost your sense of humour. This whole post cannot be taken serious as it is designed to get a rise. As a good well rounded wholesome person I was taking the piss out ofit. I am sitting here on the couch doing this while my partner and kids are in the kitchen making home made pizza'

If you are happy with the choices you have made, then great. I thought your first post was serious, because I've heard people make the same complaints without meaning them as sarcastic.

'I am not a feminist I am an equal, to him, to my kids and to you both.'

Glad to read it.

"i feel sorry for men..

Fathers have as much right when it comes to their children i know some times behind doors reasons make it different but same as some mothers..

But in most cases a couple break up and the family is spilt up..

Mother gets the children daddy gets them on weekends.. (in a nice case)
I could not imagine only seeing my children on weekends it would break my heart .. Why do people think it would not upset daddy just as much.

And of course then you get a lot of mums who take THEIR rights way to far and rule the children right over the dad drag them through court make up lies
Stop daddy seeing them because they have a new relationship etc Its horrible and should not be allowed to happen it takes two people to make a baby and both people have equal rights to the upbringing of that child put on the other foot and let a mum go through what dads are somtimes put through i bet the law would be changed very quickly if they raised the subject of a womens right."

do you feel sorry for all men based on the reasons you have written?

because i can tell you know that it is most definitely not ALL men who are ruled out of tehir chidlren's lives by mothers.

my partner and i separated in august. tehre was no discussion as to teh care of the dcs, tehre was no discussion as to when he would see them, he just left and didn't give a second thought to teh fact that i was now a single parent caring for 2 chidlren on my own 24/7 and he coudl just go back to his job and pick and chose exactly when he gets to see them. he chose to only see his dcs one weekend a month (if even that). he didn't give a damn that his leaving was severely affecting my work opportunities. that i would have to adjust my whole future due to teh reduced earning potential now facing me. he can climb as high as he wants in his chosen profession because he doesn't have to wait for his partner to get home and take over the childcare, nor does he have to pay more in childcare than he earns. he can maintain his social life because tehre are no children in his house needing cared for 24/7. he doesn't have to pay a babysitter when he fancies a pint with the lads.

do you still feel sorry for all men?

There is a big difference between custody in this country and in Sweden where I have most of my family. There it is almost taken for granted that, unless there are serious arguments to the contrary, custody will be shared 50/50, either as alternate weeks or alternate fortnights. Naturally, this places huge constraints on both parents- it becomes almost impossible to move away, for one thing, and it can be very inconvenient for the parent who has to find a new home within easy distance. But otoh it recognises both parents as equally important, and the needs of a child for stability is seen as trumping the needs of adults. Relatively few fathers seem to walk out of their children's lives. But it does make it harder to move on.

cory, i think that's the way it should be. i would love to have my EX as a proper co-parent. to be able to discuss school decisions with him, to be able to talk through our chidlren's behaviour. as their otehr parent then who better to bounce your thoughts off WRT your children? i would love to have him nearby so that when i was getting stresssed he was tehre to help me out and vice versa. i want my children to have a good example of what being a father is. (boths boys) i dont want them thinking that dad's role is obselete beyond the conception stage.