Men discriminated against from cradle to grave according to Dominic Raab MP

(448 Posts)
JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 24-Jan-11 11:19:57

Writing in an article on Politics Home, Dominic Raab MP for Esher and Walton has written:

"It is almost taboo for a man to question the assertion that the rapidly dwindling pay gap is the result of discrimination, rather than genuine choice. The debate has been consumed by the prejudice it seeks to purge."

"While we have some of the toughest anti-discrimination laws in the world, we are blind to some of the most flagrant discrimination – against men. From the cradle to the grave, men are getting a raw deal. Men work longer hours, die earlier, but retire later than women. "

Then there is the more subtle sexism. Men caused the banking crisis. Men earn more because they are more assertive in pay negotiations. One FT commentator recently complained that: ‘High-flying women are programmed to go for high-flying men. Most men aren’t attracted to women who are more successful than they are.’ Can you imagine the outrage if such trite generalisations were made about women, or other minorities? Feminists are now amongst the most obnoxious bigots."

"You can’t have it both ways. Either you believe in equality or you don’t. If you buy into the whole Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus theory of gender difference – with all its pseudo science - you can’t then complain about inequalities of outcome that flow both ways from those essentially sexist distinctions."

What do you think MNetters?

ThePosieParker Mon 24-Jan-11 11:25:40

Does anyone believe men are form mars and women from Venus claptrap?

As the least qualified feminist that treads these boards I have a couple of thoughts.....

Men are the leaders in this society and have made all the rules....
Men are the bankers, in the main....
What does toughest anti discrimination laws really mean? I read that as 'I would like to be more discriminate'
I think it's true that generally high flying women choose high flying men...
Equality does not mean same....
Paternity laws would eradicate some of the imbalance in employment for women as more often both parents would take some career break.

LeninGrad Mon 24-Jan-11 11:33:18

I don't buy into the gender difference stuff so, erm, shame I had to subject myself to the rest of that.

Eleison Mon 24-Jan-11 11:33:36

It seems a combination of genuine discussion points and silly reflex irritation.

Could you just mention why this has been posted as a sticky thread?

LeninGrad Mon 24-Jan-11 11:34:46

And I've crossed him off my Christmas card list.

MmeLindt Mon 24-Jan-11 11:38:43

LOL at Lenin.

I am tempted to give Mr Raab a biscuit.

MmeLindt Mon 24-Jan-11 11:43:27

Ok, had another look.

I do agree that retirement age should be the same for men and women. Presumably that is a relict of times past when men were more likely to do hard manual labour?

Men did not cause the banking crisis. Bankers and insufficient legal restraints caused the banking crisis.

In my circle of friends, we have couples who are similar in levels of intellect and career success, although at present many of the women are at home with the children.

MiraNova Mon 24-Jan-11 11:45:56

"From the cradle to the grave, men are getting a raw deal. Men work longer hours, die earlier, but retire later than women. "

I'd dispute they work longer hours - in employment maybe, but not when you add in caring/household chores - it's my experience that women work longer hours in total. In many cases, men work longer hours at work because they expect their partners to do more of the caring/household activities - that should be shared more equally, and could be if men wanted to. I work in a male dominated industry, and the women on the whole have to be much more organised about fitting work into the normal working day, or catching up in the evening, so that they can be home in time to pick up and/or see their children for bedtime etc. The majority (but not all) men don't seem to have this constraint or even desire.

I agree retirement age should be the same, and will be soon anyway.

slug Mon 24-Jan-11 11:52:36
sethstarkaddersmackerel Mon 24-Jan-11 12:03:53

'Men....die earlier....than women'

then they should drink and smoke less, lose a bit of weight and drive more carefully.

sethstarkaddersmackerel Mon 24-Jan-11 12:06:47

he also needs to go on a Basic Feminism course. It ain't the feminists who go on about Mars and Venus, love....

(I love the way anything anti-men is blamed on Feminism.)

belledechocchipcookie Mon 24-Jan-11 12:07:09

hmm

Here's me thinking women still did most of the housework, more women end up in crap shop jobs because they need something that's school hours so they can take the children to school, more women take time off work to look after sick children then men.

This is the biggest pile of shit I've ever heard! Sorry.

LeninGrad Mon 24-Jan-11 12:08:11

He seems to have conflated two often-opposing perspectives around gender difference and systemic inequalities and blamed the lot on feminists.

It's an incoherent ramble and does not frame a debate in any kind of way most will be able to respond to.

It's a bit worrying coming from an MP there to represent all tbh.

belledechocchipcookie Mon 24-Jan-11 12:09:32

I'm seriously hoping this isn't a Tory MP of the country's really screwed! (off to Google)

sakura Mon 24-Jan-11 12:10:16

What we really need is for women to hold 50% of the parliamentary seats so that they can start making real changes in society.

We also need to ensure that during this century at least 50% of society's economic resources are firmly in women's hands. Right now men hold a disproportionate amount of power and money in the UK, and throughout the world.

Is it possible that 80% of MPs are men in 2011! Unfortunately, yes.
The feminist revolution still has a long way to go
Viva la Revolution!

belledechocchipcookie Mon 24-Jan-11 12:12:58

Oh jesus! (searches for passports)

Fennel Mon 24-Jan-11 12:17:00

I'm quite surprised to learn of the "rapidly dwindling pay gap", I haven't checked just recently but the last I heard was that it's remaining stubborning there, not budging very far or fast at all, in the UK and across Europe.

it's possible I am just a couple of years out of date and it's changed dramatically very recently.... I don't have time today to check.

belledechocchipcookie Mon 24-Jan-11 12:19:17

I thought that women were supposed to be paid the same as men for the same job, hence the "rapidly dwindling pay gap"? hmm

sethstarkaddersmackerel Mon 24-Jan-11 12:19:30

Can anyone recommend a really simple book on feminism pitched at a level an MP can understand?

sethstarkaddersmackerel Mon 24-Jan-11 12:25:47

don't miss the bit where he blames women for the reduction in social mobility:

' the surge in career-minded women landing top jobs has reduced social mobility, because so many are middle-class.'

Women - it's all your fault!

everythingchangeseverything Mon 24-Jan-11 12:31:30

Why is this crap stickied? It's neither well written nor a new point of view.

belledechocchipcookie Mon 24-Jan-11 12:35:28

grin

slug Mon 24-Jan-11 12:35:44

feminism 101 though, frankly, I think it's pitched a bit above his level.

sakura Mon 24-Jan-11 12:42:28

"High-flying women are programmed to go for high-flying men. Most men aren’t attracted to women who are more successful than they are"

This is something feminists are trying their damndest to squash. It's the bloody patriarchy that's obsessed with dredging this nonsense up at every opportunity

slug Mon 24-Jan-11 12:57:48

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