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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to suggest that my sister could cover boobs with a scarf....

493 replies

chocolatehobnobs · 31/05/2011 22:13

Sister has 2 DC 2 and 5 months. I am pg. She reckons she is the world expert on child rearing, never afraid to comment on other's parenting. We went for lunch at the weekend at Wagamama's. Staff were lovely and helpful offered highchair etc sis was vocally demanding a certain table and being a bit precious IMO. We were sitting next to 6 young guys (same table) Sis whips boob out and BF baby. I (and our neigbours who were eating) could see boob, dripping nipple. When she announced loudly that baby had bitten nipple I offered to pass her a scarf to save the boys blushes. She refused and said she was often complimented on being a good role model for BF. AIBU to want to do things differently or is she right?

OP posts:
manicinsomniac · 03/06/2011 09:37

I don't mind my opinions being questioned at all. I just don't like being told that I'm dictating to everyone else when I've only said what I think.

Quenelle · 03/06/2011 10:13

Some babies are born with teeth. So they shouldn't be breastfed at all?

DS only bit me by accident when he first got teeth and he didn't know what they did.

And I have never squirted anyone, or been squirted, with breast milk. I don't think it's that common.

IMO these are two very strange things to fixate on.

mrsjohnsimm · 03/06/2011 10:23

chocolatehobnobs, your sister does sound in general like a bit of a pain. It sounds as though you have issues going back years and a whole host of things she's done, and will no doubt continue to do, that wind you up.

But consider for a moment that of all these things she's done over the years, the one you've singled out to start a thread about is that she doesn't cover her breasts with a scarf when she breastfeeds. Even everything else that happened in Wagamama didn't make it into your OP. This does suggest that it isn't all about your sister.

Going back to your original question "AIBU to want to do things differently or is she right?" the answer is both. She is right that carrying on when breastfeeding exactly as you would if not breastfeeding is being a good role model. If breastfeeding were normalised like that it would improve initiation rates, improve likely success rates, and IMO cut back on the pervasive pornification of women. But at the same time YANBU to want to do things differently. You should feed your baby in the way that you feel comfortable, just as she should, and if you want to cover anything at all with a scarf then you should go right ahead and do it.

HOWEVER (I am not shouting, just adding emphasis to that word. It's only when you put whole chunks of text in capitals that you are shouting) either she's not behaving perfectly normally when breastfeeding or her idea of "normal" (butting into strangers' conversation to lecture them on something you know nothing about yourself) is something that would make other people uncomfortable whatever the state of her breasts when she did it. In fact, if you'd started a thread on "Is my sister BU to interrupt complete strangers in Wagamama and tell them what to order when she's only been there once herself?" you would probably have got near-complete unanimity that she was BU. And being strange and pushy while breastfeeding isn't really being a good role model -- but because you are being strange and pushy, not because you're being strange and pushy while not wearing a scarf .

Think about the "choose to try to consider other people when out" point. Some people don't like to have anyone black or Asian sitting near them; should they be "considered" by avoiding eating in the same establishment if you are black or Asian, or perhaps by draping a blanket over your head so that your ethnicity isn't obvious? Some people (a disturbing number, actually) don't like to have anyone obviously disabled in a non-picturesque fashion sitting near them when they are eating; should they be "considered" by the people with disabilities or (if appropriate) their carers? At the other end of the spectrum, most people would probably dislike having a cockroach-racing contest staged in the coffee shop at lunchtime, and that probably should be considered. It's not that you believe in trying to consider other people when out and that everyone who disagrees with you doesn't. It's that those who disagree with you see breastfeeding as closer to the black/Asian/disabled end of the spectrum where it is unreasonable and fundamentally unnatural to object to it and the offended person really needs to work on an attitude adjustment, while you presumably see it as something in the middle where being offended or uncomfortable is a perfectly valid and value-neutral position. I am considerate of other people in all manner of ways when out with my children; that just doesn't extend to covering all visible bits of me below the collarbone up with a scarf when breastfeeding the youngest.

There is a marvellous thread on MN somewhere from someone who had had a waiter come over to explain that someone had complained that they were offended by her breastfeeding her baby. But she wasn't breastfeeding. In fact, she had formula fed from birth and had never breastfed. She was just holding her sleeping baby. The complainer was just so weirded out by the whole idea of breastfeeding that he/she managed to create an entire public breastfeeding scenario in the depths of his/her imagination and then offend him/herself with it.

SunshineisSorry · 03/06/2011 10:30

This does remind me of a woman at our local M&T a while back, BFing her 1 yo toddler, who would walk off mid feed to play - she would just sit ther chatting with her boob hanging out, dripping milk - for all to see. I wasn't offended but did want to go up to her and say, oi you forgot to put your boob away Grin I'm not exactly the shy retiring type and was a bit of a militant BFer but this took the biscuit, even i would have covered myself up

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar · 03/06/2011 10:50

Sunshine I wonder if we went to the same toddler group Grin

That's an example of the ostentatious bf-ing I mentioned up thread.

No, it's not offensive but it's a little off putting and not a great advertisement for bf.

5DollarShake · 03/06/2011 11:51

I don't mind my opinions being questioned at all. I just don't like being told that I'm dictating to everyone else when I've only said what I think.

Oh come on manicinsomniac - don't be disingenuous!!! You said...

  1. 'If they can bite, they shouldn't be on there'
  1. '6 months is about the right time to stop breastfeeding'.

How on earth do you expect the above comments to be taken? If you say something rude about which you know nothing, how do you expect it be to taken??

RitaMorgan · 03/06/2011 11:57

Her boob was dripping milk? I didn't realise people still dripped/leaked after the newborn stage.

SunshineisSorry · 03/06/2011 11:59

mine dripped for about two years after i stopped BF Angry most inconvenient!!

RitaMorgan · 03/06/2011 11:59

And yes, manicinsomniac - if you'd said "I wouldn't feed a baby with teeth/feed past 6 months" I doubt anyone would have picked you up on it.

Cosmosis · 03/06/2011 13:16

FFS it?s a boob! Out of all the parts of the body, it?s probably one of the most attractive, what?s the problem? What is actually going to happen if you see it??

I?d far rather people saw my (frankly rather marvellous looking thanks to feeding) boobs than my somewhat crinkly and flabby tummy. I think they would too.

I used to be able to feed discretely (discreetly? I can never remember which is which) but DS is now a hulking 9m old and far far too interested in the world, so you get a lot of nipple flashing, nothing I can do about that really. You have two choices, look, or don?t look, it doesn?t really bother me either way, I?ll be busy feeding my son so won?t actually notice or care.

Ps manic a friend of mine was born with teeth, should she never have been bf?ed?

Rita, DS is 9m, I still drip and leak and it?s a right ptia frankly.

nickelbabe · 03/06/2011 13:18

manicinsomniac -"But 6 months seems about the right age to stop breastfeeding. It's only in the last few years that we've gone all American and started attaching toddlers to ourselves."
actually, that WHO says that you should BF until the child is 2.
and America has a very low uptake of BFing.

WibblyBibble · 03/06/2011 16:01

YABU. Your feelings aren't 'valid', they are very unfair to your sister and stupid. Not all feelings are valid- what about someone who genuinely feels suicidal, or feels scared of the aliens sending radio waves to control their thoughts? Yours are just as unreasonable, as you are projecting exhibitionism onto a woman who is just feeding her child in the normal way. I'm surprised your sister agrees to go anywhere with you when you act so rudely. Do you really think teenage boys haven't seen (plastic, much more inappropriate) tits in the Sun, ffs?

manicinsomniac · 03/06/2011 16:42

5dollarshake, no, your quotes are incorrect. I've just checked to make sure and what I said was,

"If it can bite it shouldn't be on there imo"

and

"6 months seems about the right time to stop."

I have opinions on lots of things I've never tried. I believe abortion is wrong but I've never had one and would never dictate to anyone else what they should do. I don't think it's okay to feed children lots of processed foods but I have never seen the results and don't criticise people who do. I dislike smoking but have never tried it and don't judge people who like it.

I also have lots of opinions on things I have tried. I don't see the problem in taking drugs on occasion but I wouldn't argue with anyone who thought that was stupid, even if they've never tried them. I think private schools are great but don't expect everyone to agree, even if they've never tried it.

Knowing about something personally isn't a prerequisite for having an opinion on it. Unless you want to push that opinion on others. Which I don't.

TimeWasting · 03/06/2011 16:53

manic 'imo' doesn't mean 'I wouldn't personally', it just means that you have acknowledged that it's your opinion that babies who can bite shouldn't be breastfed (as opposed to official advice I suppose).

If you aren't giving out your opinion on what you think other people should do, you really need to be clearer.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 03/06/2011 17:15

OP, your feelings are entirely valid, you're free to feel whatever you want to feel, in spite of anyone else telling you differently.

Some women choose to breastfeed with as much fuss as possible, they enjoy attention and will do what they can to achieve that objective. Some just don't care, they're not attention-seeking but they feel they have the right to feed anywhere in whatever manner they choose. Others feed discreetly.

Of all of the types of breastfeeders, it's the first and possibly the second type who believe that they're performing a great service to womankind by profiling breastfeeding. I very much doubt that's the case. So many posters talk of low breastfeeding rates... would that just be obvious breastfeeding then? Discreet feeders don't register somehow? Hmm

The militants get on my nerves, mind your own damned business, can't you? If I were feeding and had one of them come to verbally 'pat me on the head', she'd be sent off with a flea in her ear.

slhilly · 03/06/2011 17:24

manic, why do you have those opinions? what are the reasons for your opinion that a baby with teeth shouldn't breastfeed and that 6months seems about the right time to stop?

For the latter, you seemed earlier to be saying 'this is my opinion because being bitten would hurt and babies get teeth at 6months, my mother said it was the right age, and some pals told me something that I interpreted as meaning this was the age at which they'd weaned". So we have an argument from personal instinct ("I wouldn't like it"), an argument from authority where the authority is your mum, and another argument from authority where the authority is your interpretation of your friends' descriptive (vs normative) statement about when they weaned. All of those are pretty weak arguments.

You are entitled to whatever opinions you like. But if you state them publicly, and other people think they're obnoxious, you can expect to be called on them - whether or not you "push [them] on others" (and frankly, "6 months seems about the right time to stop" is pretty damned pushy). If you can't back up your opinions with some robust reasoning, based on facts, you can expect to be called on that, too.

manicinsomniac · 03/06/2011 18:53

yes and I don't mind being called on it, I'm happy to be. I've already said I have no problem with that. I just don't like being told that I am insisting my opinion is correct and what others should follow. It's just an opinion, it's not fact.

And, weak or not, I do think family and friends are the most common influences for what we think about things and how we live our lives. Most people do not spend hours pouring over books and message boards in order to decide how to raise their kids (at least I don't think they do). As humans don't we learn mostly from the experiences of those around us and our own mistakes?

slhilly · 03/06/2011 20:04

manic, it's pretty clear that the signposting you did that this was only your opinion was not enough to communicate that fact to many people who read what you wrote. So if you want to avoid being told you're insisting your opinion is correct, you'll need to phrase things differently next time.

chipmonkey · 03/06/2011 22:35

Actually, manic, I think that's where a lot of things are changing. My Mum was a big bfing advocate but after bfing ds1 and ds2 for 12 months, it was actually MN that led me to bf ds3 and ds4 till they were much older despite no-one at all in my immediate circle doing the same. It was people on MN who gave me the confidence to keep going despite being thought of as "different" by people in RL.

BooyHoo · 03/06/2011 22:37

same for me chipmonkey. if i hadn't known about MN i doubt i would have even tried feeding DS2 as i was wrongly led to believe by my mum that i didn't ahve enough milk when feeding ds1 so gave up at 7 weeks.

cherrysodalover · 04/06/2011 00:01

But manic- the health benefits for both mother and child up to 2 years are well documented by WHO so your strange- if it can bite it should not be one there....? save us the manicfolkwisdom please.

happy4eva · 04/06/2011 22:23

Do mummys feed children still on breast at 2+ i thought they just pumped it like im not sure i like the sound of that to be honest

TimeWasting · 04/06/2011 23:03

Yes, 2 year olds are breastfed. Why would one suddenly start expressing it?

There's nothing to it. Once you've been feeding them for 1 year and 364 days you just... carry on til one of you doesn't want to anymore. Smile

chipmonkey · 04/06/2011 23:10

Why on earth would you suddenly start pumping? Expressing is a PITA. Plenty of children all over the world are bfed past two.

happy4eva · 04/06/2011 23:20

each to their own i guess but i would not personally see a two year old as a baby so if i felt that i wanted to breastfeed at that age i would give them it in a cup :)