up shit creek without a paddle.... Urgent help/advice needed please.

[HolyFail]

Regular poster with recent namechange here....

A friend of mine was seeing this guy - a lot older than her, he is very well off and as a birthday present offered to buy her veneers (sp*)

So she went to a dental clinic, had her actual teeth filed down to pins and is wearing temp veneers until her appointment next week.

1st payment was made (cash, by him)
2nd payment is due next week before the job is complete (thousands of pounds due)

He has dumped her! And told her to sort it out herself - she is a young woman with no money - sure she works, but is not earning enough to pay for this and she has requested to pay on finance but she has a crap credit rating so has therefore been declined!

In addition to "How could you be so stupid" What can I advise her here? Does anyone have any experience in this kind of thing?

Any suggestions welcome? We've been through how stupid she has been, we just need to find a way to sort this?

Whatever happens, I seriously hope the old man she was going out never manitains an erection again! How horrible of him to dump her because she got hair extensions. And just exactly how much cosmetic procedure should a 22 year old need anyway? Very sad situation for your friend. She's obviously incredibly insecure about her body anyway and now this old knobrot is off onto the next one already.

He's not safe to be near women with his abusive tendancies.

Please please, suggest that your friend DOES NOT go in all guns blazing. The dentist has done nothing wrong and if they are going to let her pay by instalments she wants them onside.

With luck she'll be sitting there gob open, and poking around going on for several sessions- she doesn't want to be in the position of having been stroppy and threatening with them.

When I had my veneers, the dentist just buffed the ridged surface of the teeth. They were a bit darker but otherwise looked OK - no one else would have noticed. I did not get temps and had the veneers fitted 4 or 5 days later. I was given prescription toothpaste to use during the waiting period.

Ethically, would a dentist do crowns on healthy teeth?

She called the dentist, explained what had happened and he suggested that she apply for finance, she reckons she will be declined but is going to give it a try.

But, she also got in touch with the boyfriend, told him the situation and he has offered to lend her the money (and agree that she pays it back monthly) From what I can gather, she is still applying for finance and if that fails will then accept the loan from boyfriend...... (can of worms)

She is well aware that it's her fault and she should not have been so silly therefore is willing to concede that she should pay the balance, so, no solicitors, no newspapers, no guns blazing. (at this stage anyway)

She just wants to get the finance so that she can draw a line under this and have no more to do with the boyfriend.

I have many more questions for her, but we are both emailing each other from work so limited to how much time we can spend on this.

TBH she doesn't seem as manic about it all today....

I'll let you know the outcome, thanks all for your input.

least ex bf will lend her the money as last resort

That sounds hopeful, HolyFail. To be honest, when I read about the 'guns blazing' yesterday, I thought very little of your friend, it seemed she felt aggrieved at the dentist. The blame, if she feels the need, is to be directed at her ex and herself, in equal measure. She owes the money and at least if she can get a finance agreement - or loan from ex but with proper payments, then she can take some pride in knowing that she's sorted herself out as an adult.

Hope it goes well, she's lucky to have you batting for her, OP. :)

You're absolutely right LyingWitch

It was just the shock horror and anger talking yesterday - it's amazing what a good nights sleep can do hey? :)

it's bloody awful, sounds like he planned the whole thing (or am i just overly suspicious?)

why do people do that to their teeth though? generally speaking? i can't imagine putting myself through that unless my own teeth were black and rotting...

I haven't read all of the reponses to this thread but I am a lawyer and I would say your friend would not be unreasonable to consult a solicitor about this. There is a legal argument that allows someone who puts themselves in a worse position (financially or otherwise) in reliance on the promise of another (old twat boyfriend, in this case) can sue to be "made whole" after the promisor fails to follow through. It's really part of contract law if I remember correctly, but stranger cases have been brought. Before she takes any more money from this jerk, she should spend an hour with a solicitor. Usually a consultation is free or low cost, and it might just cost a few hundred quid to get the solicitor to write a letter setting out your friend's case to this guy to make him do the right thing. Anyway, I would certainly suggest this as an option.

Sorry for your friend also...

I had 6 veneers fitted when I was 18, albeit when veneers were still in the 'experimental' stage (I was really lucky and got it done via referral to a dental school). Within 8 years I had cement showing around the tops of them, and 2 pinged off and got eaten , I had been prepared for the fact that they wouldn't last forever. I had them all removed completely 4 years ago and crowns put on at great expense as a wedding present from my DH (and in contrast to some other posts my original teeth are still there underneath, the veneer just sort of hooked over the top, but my teeth are quite gappy anyway so that's probably why)

What I am saying is that once your friend sorts out her current situation, she needs to start immediately saving for a time when they deteriorate and she needs them doing again!

O
M
G

Why is this silly woman agreeing to take responsibility for the procedure herself? It is absolutely not her fault that an abusive man who saw her as a piece of clay he could use to mould his fantasy woman with used her, duped her and duped the dentist too, and then dumped her.

I'm going to shout now --

GO TO A SOLICITOR WITH YOUR FRIEND

Do not let her make any payment arrangement with anyone until she has seen a solicitor. It is highly unlikely that she signed any agreement to pay the dentist. As mentioned above, what she probably signed was consent to the procedure, understanding the scope of the work, and not a payment agreement.

Even a numpty doesn't deserve to be left with a bill for 5K. This is a lot of money for a young person to have to pay to this professional, money she may not even owe by rights.

And furthermore, I can't believe that you are seriously contemplating having her beholden to this man of whom she seems to be actually afraid, an abusive man, a man who seemingly has no conscience?

Teeth apart, she is extremely lucky that he dumped her, and you should be doing all in your power to ensure she never gets embroiled with him again, yet here you are sending her back into his arms, and tied to him by debt this time, like a lamb to the slaughter.

mathanxiety

It's a nightmare, I want her to see a solicitor, she refuses - I can't drag her with me can I? And, she needs to be 100% in it, to see it through!

It is as it stands at the moment - we'll see what the decision is regarding the finance. It's her decision regarding paying this bill. When all is said and done I just have to support her.

FWIW - she does not seem to be taking my advice anymore, I continue to repeat myself to her, she nods in agreement and then goes off to do something else - I'm exhausted with the whole thing.

So I am now starting to think that there is more to this than what I was originally told, I'm terrified that the next phonecall I get is "Oh has come over, we've sorted it out, all lovey dovey again"

You should drag her with you. You should drag her kicking ans screaming if necessary, because it could be well worth her time, and it is certainly in her best interests not to get back in the grip of the boyfriend (the red flags you saw are real and dangerous).

It sounds as if she thinks her life is some sort of fairy tale and she secretly thinks her sugar daddy will turn out to be Mr Right. Please do continue to support her because she will need your help. This man is bad news.

mmeblueberry asked "Ethically, would a dentist do crowns on healthy teeth"

in short , yes, many do. In the same way doctors perform cosmetic surgery on healthy breasts.

I am not comfortable with crowning perfectly healthy teeth in the majority of cases especially when many aesthetic tooth problems can be fixed orthodontically.

I am an NHS dentist working an a poor area but you would be amazed how often I get asked to crown/ veneer healthy teeth that the patient considers not white/ straight enough.

SOme of the stuff I see on TV being done by "celebrity dentists " ( dreadful term) fills me with despair.

READ WHAT KATIEWATIE SAYS ! SO true. You take on a lifetime of maintenance when you get extensive cosmetic work done on your teeth

do let us know what the veneers look like when fitted please!

She seems very immature, HolyFail. Why isn't she listening to you? Is she thinking that if it all goes wrong, you'll bail her out?

It does seem as if you think ex is moving towards 'current' again. He will really have control this time if that's the case. She's a very stupid person if she doesn't get expert help on this.

I really admire your stamina, OP, I think I would have ditched her after it became apparent that a good night's sleep didn't work much magic.

mathanxiety... Why should this girl not take responsibilty for herself? She's been foolish, now she's not taking steps to resolve it. It is her fault if there is fault to be apportioned. Her ex is a louse, definitely, what happes hereon in is of her own making and OP has been trying hard to get her to see sense.

I had my veneers replaced after almost 20 years. This was part of more extensive work, including orthodontia. They could have worked around them but, in reality, they would have let down then rest of the restoration. As others have said, there is gum recession to look forward to.

When my veneers were removed, was necessary to file my teeth to a point (triangles), and then to cap them.

I am 8 years down the road and they are as good as new. I go to the dentist every three months and have a very intensive hygiene routine. If only I had put the same number of hours into my dental hygiene when I was a child/teenager.

Serious abuse Red Flags here, particularly with her no longer listening to advice from close pals :(

LyingWitch, she is not legally responsible for the 5K if there was an agreement between the dentist and the boyfriend that he would pay the bill. If she signed an agreement to pay 5K to the dentist then she is legally responsible. But I don't think she is that crazy. She knows her financial situation apparently and knows what her salary is. She was talked into the veneers on the understanding that they were a gift.

It is not her fault to have believed someone who presumably made an agreement without a gun to his head to pay the dentist the veneers were all his idea after all why would she doubt he would pay? As far as being dumb enough to think an abusive man would make a good partner or that she should believe the relationship would last as long as the dental procedure -- lots of smart women have walked down that path, and they are not responsible either for what befell them. She doesn't deserve punishment to the tune of 5K for being taken in by a scoundrel.

I know this is a bit crazy but as a "hack", I am well aware of the amount of money various magazines pay for stories like this. Just a thought.

Don't normally do this on here as I know it is not approved of but I do have some contacts. DM me if you want info.

Otherwise, poor girl!

Must be a man thing.
I told my husband about this and he pissed himself laughing and aid she was silly.
im such a lucky woman.

I have some veneers - I think six on my top and bottom front teeth. I had them done when I was pregnant at 22 (by my NHS dentist) and they were FREE, I have no idea why, but they definitely were! I'm now 33 and they are fine - my teeth are not sparkly Hollywood white, but not awful either - they were awful when I had them done as I had suffered from an illness for some years that had discoloured them badly.

I do not recall any filing of my teeth at all - and I'm sure I would have! It sounds horrible! I had three appointments as I recall - one was moulds of teeth, don't know what second was after all this time, and third was fitting the veneers.

I think an appeal to the dentists's better nature and a guarantor for the payment plan would be the best bet, as others have said, if she has no recourse in law.

it is bloody expensive my niece had one 5k could she not go to police it is a form of abuse ,abh talking her into it then dumping her has he done this before maybe unusual for dentist to do with out finances sorted or some sort of payment plan before venners were made

I still want to know more about their relationship - it sounds so dodgy. Where did they meet? What else were you worried about?

The hair extension thing is actually pretty worrying. He sounds like a horribly controlling person. I'm surprised he dumped her, maybe it's because she wasn't as controllable as he wanted? But then, she was obviously vulnerable and mouldable because she was presumably pressurised into the veneers.

I don't know, it's just very very weird.

No guns blazing "yet"?

She has no right to go in with an attitude at the dentist. He has done nothing wrong.