Being blackmailed by in laws.

[Daisytrotter]

Sorry, more of a wwyd but am sitting here in pieces, really need advice.

Apologies if I don't reply straight away but have to pick up my friend from the airport.

My mil was diagnosed with dementia two weeks ago. This is after a year of some behaviour which could be considered odd. Interestingly, it was me who suggested that she visit her gp after I found that she had taken the fluffy inserts out of my croc shoes and was wearing them as slippers Also, she has been having some significant memory problems, but all in all she functions quite well.

Since ds was born 14 months ago, mil has come to stay with us for a week every month. Fil comes down twice a year or we go to stay with them (they live in Swansea. It's not an arrangement that I was ever happy with but ds is her first grandchild and I wanted her to have a strong relationship with him. however, her visits have become increasingly hard work for me as she turns the fridge off at the mains, leaves the back door open as well as other things which a not dangerous per se but annoying. Also dh is at work all day so I am at home with her.

When she comes down she really badgers us to go out so she can babysit. On the three occasions she has babysat, we have come back to find ds absolutely hysterical. I put it down to the fact that he doesn't really know her but now I think she may be leaving him for long periods to cry.

Anyway, since the diagnosis came to light, I spoke to dh and said that I am no longer happy for her to come for a week every month and I don't want her to babysit. I suggested that her and fil come every two months. I just have a feeling that she was using the time with us for a break for herself and i feel as her disease progresses, fil will be using the break as respite care. Dh thought this was a good idea and put it to them when he called them.

They went ballistic. Mil insisted on keeping to the arrangement of monthly visits and babysitting and fil said we were compromising her dignity. I understand that they are struggling with the diagnosis but I also have to think of ds and my own life.

Then fil dropped a bombshell. They had lent us money to buy our house and he said that if mil was not good enough to babysit then their money wasn't good enough for us either. He has demanded it back which essentially means we have to sell the house and rent as we would not be able to buy another property. He has also threatened us with legal action if we do not pay the money back in full by the end of June.

I don't know what to do. They are extremely well off and don't need the money so this is tantamount to blackmail. I have no issue with them visiting I just don't want mil every month and I certainly don't want her to babysit.

Help?

Agree dittany.

I don't think the fil has his wifes best interests at heart.

Why is he so desperate for a full week every month? So desperate he will try to bully people into having her.

TBH, OP-if you say that no, you cannot meet MIL-what´s he going to do?

It still sounds as if he is using the loan as a "hold" tbh.

And he obviously isn´t listening to you!

I would refuse too, my grandmother had dementia & I remember being utterly terrified of her as a child.

If your husband wants his mother staying at your home for a week each month he can find a way of caring for her.

It's not your responsibility.

My grandmother had episodes of becoming extremely violent & for a frail looking old lady she was amazingly strong! Personally I would not agree to it.

Out of interest, how old are your in laws? I think your Friday-Monday suggestion is perfectly reasonable, but depending on how you feel, perhaps you could suggest that a little longer is ok if FIL comes for all or most of the days your DH is working. It would take the pressure off him but not put quite so much on you (unless FIL is hard work in which case feel free to completely ignore that suggestion!)

It might not be that.... It might be that your mil is in pieces that she 1. develops dementia, which was not self inflicted, which she has no control over, and 2. that she now experiences that her family treat her like she has the black plague and fight over NOT seeing her, whereas she might want to see her family and her grandchild now more than ever.
He might, just MIGHT, be acting out of despair at seeing his wife, the mother of his children, treated this way, by own flesh and blood.

OP - your PILs are behaving extremely badly, dementia or no dementia. But you cannot make them behave well.

You obviously cannot let your MIL babysit or take any responsibility in your home. I suspect that your best course of action would be to get a doctor to confirm this in writing but I have no idea how you can go about this.

QuintessentialOldMoo "It might not be that.... It might be that your mil is in pieces that she 1. develops dementia, which was not self inflicted, which she has no control over, and 2. that she now experiences that her family treat her like she has the black plague and fight over NOT seeing her, whereas she might want to see her family and her grandchild now more than ever.
He might, just MIGHT, be acting out of despair at seeing his wife, the mother of his children, treated this way, by own flesh and blood."

I agree with this absolutely. I think there are some very harsh and unfeeling posts on this thread.

Does your DH have any siblings he is close to and could chat to? Maybe they could even 'mediate' a little between him and fil.

I am actually quite shocked at how extremely callous the entire family is behaving!

Yeah yeah, granny/wife/mil/mother has dementia, shoo shoo, out with her....

Poor woman. Suddenly everybody are fighting tooth and nail to NOT see her.

Yanbu, all of you.

Nobody seem to be willing to sit down and find out how best to see to her and the entire family's needs, everybody seem to run away from any responsibility and care.

I would be ashamed to be part of your family, and I am so glad I am not.

Think I will hide this thread, as I am just totally gob-smacked at it all.

If FIL was that concerned, why would he still want the poor woman to be travelling alone?

Wouldn´t he be taking her, asking someone to collect or asking that people now visit them?

"I think your FIL is a sexist.

He seems to think the job of the women in the family, whether they are blood relations or not, is to look after the relatives needing care.

Once again your DH and his brother can take care of their mother if that is so necessary. They'll just have to organise it between them."

I agree, but it can be hard for women to resist taking ALL the caring on. It's generations of conditioning.

Logically, the OP has enough to do caring for her 14 mth old. That should be enough. The men SHOULD deal with the MIL.

FIL is still out of order. Has the point been pushed with him about coping with childcare and a MIL with dementia? And I mean really pushed? I can understand FIL being upset with the timing of what you said, it was insensitive and mean in it's timing. And the severity of his reaction is likely coming out of that. I'm glad the loan situation seems to have resolved itself, but the point remains that it's not practical to be caring for a baby and a MIL with dementia at the same time, for extended periods, alone, which is what you would in effect be doing.

I think you should reiterate that you are willing to have MIL on her own for a weekend at a time, because your DH will be there and you will therefore not be alone with MIL and DS. Extend the offer again, and state that if FIL would like you to have her for longer, he must accompany MIL himself.

Yes, you could've timed the announcement of your feelings better, no doubt about that. But what you are actually proposing is not unreasonable.

I think that OP is quite "within her rights" tbh.

Mil has visited lots-mostly (?) when her son isn´t there.

But now it is known that MIL needs caring for, she isn´t just a visitor.

OP has a toddler & isn´t in a position to give MIL the care & attention that she needs when she visits.

The OP and her DH are not saying that they don't want to see her. Op, is quite understandably, saying that she cannot cope with a woman with dementia for a week at a time, every month, on her own. That alone is enough reason to refuse the very long visits that they are used to, but throw into that that there is a baby that needs to be looked after at the same time, and I can't understand how anyone would think that Op is being unfeeling towards her IL's.

There are three issues here:
1 - the money. Preferably give it back to them and take the issue out of the equation on a permanent basis. If you really can't do that, at least get the terms of the loan sorted out now and get it formalised in a legal document. Then everyone is clear about who is entitled to what, and the money cannot be used by FIL as leverage going forwards.
2 - the family reaction to the diagnosis. Everyone is coming to terms with this and is doubtless stressed. Give things a bit of time to settle down and allow thr news to sink in. Even a week or two might take the heat out of the situation. Pressing the point hard now might not do you any favours in the long term.
3 - MIL's condition. Obviously the arrangements that worked when MIL was healthy (i.e. week-long visits and babysitting) won't work when she's ill. It's unfair on you to effectively become her carer for 1/4 of the time and its unfair on her to have the responsibility of a toddler to care for (even if she thinks she wants it, she is not capable of judging these things accurately now). A new plan needs to be devised, for everyone's sake. This needs to allow FIL some respite, to ensure that MIL is safely cared for, to protect your DC from being cared for by someone who is not up to the job and also ensure that you don't get everything dropped on you (as you have other responsibilities, i.e. your toddler). I would suggest that, before agreeing to anything, you get someone in to assess MIL's needs. Hopefully you can find a way to allow her to spend quality time with her family in a safe environment without anyone feeling like they are bearing a disproportionate burden of her care (which, sadly, is likely to become an increasing burden). Good luck.

Quint, I understand your feelings, but I think it needs to be remembered that this is the OP's mother in law, NOT her mother, and she has been having her one week in four in her home with a new baby for over a year, because she wanted to foster close bonds between baby and granny. That's a noble thing to do - would you have wanted your MIL staying that much/often? She isn't saying she won't offer respite care, she is saying she can't offer that MUCH respite care, and given the arrangement was never for care at all, that seems wholly reasonable. She's being expected to go from having her MIL under her feet 1 week in 4 to having to care for her when she is suffering rapidly escalating dementia 1 in 4, alongside a toddler.

FIL has money, time and no other responsibilities. Why should a DIL care for his wife 1/4 of the time when she also has a baby? Especially when he isn't just not being grateful but is now demanding more time, not less, plus isn't prepared to ensure his own wife's safety when travelling!

My main worry here is that people keep ignoring how appalling this could be for the MIl herself - travel in London on the underground when demented would very possibly terrify her completely. Constant to-ing and fro-ing will unsettle her and may make her condition deteriorate. She can't possibly travel down that distance alone, either. If what she needs is stability and her home setting, then surely the sensible option is for a home carer to be privately employed for a couple of days and nights a week, so she can get used to having them there when well enough to do so, and they can initially do householdy type things (she can be told a housekeeper, to help her, rather than carer) and to have sons and DILs alternate weekends, when FIL can himself go away. That way she has stability, she sees lots of her family, FIL has a break and nobody is placing huge burdens on one DIL's shoulders.

FIL is asking an enormous favour of a woman unrelated to his wife. And he's not just lacking in gratitude - he's being an entitled prick about it. I think it's totally reasonable for boundaries to be set and a quantum of care that can be managed offered - and for the woman's own sake, that care IMO should be in her own home.

OP, glad the money issues is sorted, but IME people willing to throw threats like that about are controlling anyway. I think it's important you sit down and think about what you can manage, what you can realistically cope with, and then state that that is the limit of your ability to help, but that you will be totally reliable and consistent in offering that help.

I agree that it's profoundly sexist to assume that the DIL will do the caring rather than the husband and two sons. It's also profoundly sexist to assume that a SAHM of a baby is not working just as much as the two sons are - you're not sat on your bottom eating caramels. And you can't do it - you can't care for a demented person and care for a toddler unless you are a very rare bird indeed, any more than your DH could take her along to the office. The person not working is FIL, and while yes, he will need respite, he says himself she is not bad enough yet to need it and that when she is the state will provide some - he just doesn't want her around. That's very sad, but I don't think OP has the level of moral responsibility for that some are implying. Her sons and husband, sure. DIL? Not so much.

OT, but Luna you sound a saint. I take my hat off to you - I couldn't do it. Your family are very lucky - I hope they appreciate that.

Nobody seem to be willing to sit down and find out how best to see to her and the entire family's needs, everybody seem to run away from any responsibility and care

I think it need to have everyone sit down with a rational discussion. There must be outside help-why not try somewherelike Age Concern or CAB to see where you can turn for help? I think you need an outsider in on the discussion. It also seems to have escalated pretty quickly, with people backed into corners.

Perhaps you suggest that the money you are giving back each month could be spent on a carer - 10 hours a week so that your DIL has a break. This wouldn't necessarily be for ' personal care' as such yet but for shopping trips out, visits to places like hairdressers or beautician or simply being with your MIL at home for DIL to go out. The whole idea of your MIL coming to you for a week is going to be more and more confusing and potentially dangerous as MIL's condition worsens. Routine and familiarity are best, and a worth your weight in gold 1:1 carer experienced in dementia care will really help. I worked in an elderly care ward in London and we had a lady turn up there/brought there with no clue who she was or where she had come from but with £2000 in cash in her handbag. No one claimed her but the last thing you want is to turn around at a tube station and for your MIL to be missing and you trying to cope with the little one and trying to find her.

Even if she isn't bad enough for respite etc yet, establishing daily routines will keep her independent for longer. Some councils have also invested in Telecare which can provide practical help such as wander alarms, sensor mats, (set an alarm off if a person leaves a chair, the house, their bed at night), gas monitors, water stops and thermostats so that the stress of worrying about whether the bath water is too hot or the gas is left on is improved. You can buy these things privately too as and when you need them.

There is no way your MIL should babysit. What if your little one gets in a mess she decides to bath them and doesn't check the water or leaves them in the bath alone because she's forgotten and they are seriously burnt or die. Don't let your FIL overestimate her disbility. Families are often in denial about the level of disbility as it is often so gradual the reality of the condition doesn't hit them until a crisis happens which is when they seek help from Social Services or the home situation breaks down entirely.

My grandmother has vascular dementia and it is such a horrible heart breaking condition. But I still treasure the time that I spend with her, and that she spends with DC. I believe in 'do as you would be done by' so I would have mil for a week each month for as long as it is a safe and happy experience for her. Good luck whatever happens - I do hope the family pulls together as it's tough enough dealing with dementia without family rows.

I agree with those who said that your MIL may become distressed by the traveling and not being in her own home as her condition progressess, if shes a night waker too, which my auntie is, you may be up all night watching her, trying to get her back to bed, and may spend all night awake looking after her and your toddler and be exausted for round two of watching her and him every second the next morning. Also if your FIL is unreasonable already, how is he going to react if she has an accident when she is with you? My auntie often falls and despite doing everything to make the house as safe as it possibly can be, as she will do things like forget to put her glasses on in the middle of the night or be walking up and down stairs carrying things in the dark. her husband is often exausted by keeping getting up and trying to get her to go back to sleep, its effecting his health as it is,nevermind if he also had a young child to look after in the mix!

"Fil says I am being unfair and disrespectful and he is now refusing Friday to Monday and wants Monday to Monday!"

You are not being unfair. You are not being disrespectful.
He is being unfair. He is being disrespectful.
And as my mother used to say, ' "I want" doesn't mean "I get".'

Your FIL is a c*. No person in their right mind would leave a child with a person with dementia. I think it sounds as if he is looking to keep off loading her on you.

I think you need to make it clear that you will not leave her in charge of your child no matter what he blackmails you with.