Being blackmailed by in laws.

[Daisytrotter]

Sorry, more of a wwyd but am sitting here in pieces, really need advice.

Apologies if I don't reply straight away but have to pick up my friend from the airport.

My mil was diagnosed with dementia two weeks ago. This is after a year of some behaviour which could be considered odd. Interestingly, it was me who suggested that she visit her gp after I found that she had taken the fluffy inserts out of my croc shoes and was wearing them as slippers Also, she has been having some significant memory problems, but all in all she functions quite well.

Since ds was born 14 months ago, mil has come to stay with us for a week every month. Fil comes down twice a year or we go to stay with them (they live in Swansea. It's not an arrangement that I was ever happy with but ds is her first grandchild and I wanted her to have a strong relationship with him. however, her visits have become increasingly hard work for me as she turns the fridge off at the mains, leaves the back door open as well as other things which a not dangerous per se but annoying. Also dh is at work all day so I am at home with her.

When she comes down she really badgers us to go out so she can babysit. On the three occasions she has babysat, we have come back to find ds absolutely hysterical. I put it down to the fact that he doesn't really know her but now I think she may be leaving him for long periods to cry.

Anyway, since the diagnosis came to light, I spoke to dh and said that I am no longer happy for her to come for a week every month and I don't want her to babysit. I suggested that her and fil come every two months. I just have a feeling that she was using the time with us for a break for herself and i feel as her disease progresses, fil will be using the break as respite care. Dh thought this was a good idea and put it to them when he called them.

They went ballistic. Mil insisted on keeping to the arrangement of monthly visits and babysitting and fil said we were compromising her dignity. I understand that they are struggling with the diagnosis but I also have to think of ds and my own life.

Then fil dropped a bombshell. They had lent us money to buy our house and he said that if mil was not good enough to babysit then their money wasn't good enough for us either. He has demanded it back which essentially means we have to sell the house and rent as we would not be able to buy another property. He has also threatened us with legal action if we do not pay the money back in full by the end of June.

I don't know what to do. They are extremely well off and don't need the money so this is tantamount to blackmail. I have no issue with them visiting I just don't want mil every month and I certainly don't want her to babysit.

Help?

I suppose I'm just adding my two-pence worth her but my granddad initially refused to accept the extent to which my grandma's alzheimer's had developed. My parents and aunt had to step on all of his toes in order to create a safe situation for my grandma. It is likely that your FIL will take time to accept your MIL's diagnosis. My granddad was in deniable for a long time. Your BIL needs to be more involved eg visiting his parents at weekends as your MIL will become very confused moving between houses. There were arguments between my mum and aunt (who lives at the other end of the country) but this needs to happen otherwise one person will take on too much of the burden, which is not feasible for an extended period of time.

I wish you all the best as this is a very stressful situation for all involved and you sound very caring.

Agree no way should she be left to babysit alone. My Nana used to babysit me when she had alzheimer's, I was older -7, and I will never forgive my mother for the things that happened to me. Also looking after someone with dementia is very hard work and as it gets worse full time. It would be asking alot of you to look after a toddler and a grown woman who needs a alot of support, so dont think you being unreasonable.
Regarding the money, unless you have a contract to say the money is to be paid back. I would imagine he would find it very hard to take legal action (but Im no expert) and if he did the court would see it was unreasonable to pay all in a lump sum in such a short time. They would probably work out what you could reasonably afford each month.
I would see how things settle and see if you dh can talk to him as it sounds like fil upset and lashing out. If he still insists, call his bluff say you dont have the money so take us to court. I would never give in to blackmail it justs makes me stand my ground even more.

'I really think your DH is the only person who should be having a conversation with his parents about the whole thing. He's an adult and his dad needs to be told this is unacceptable.'

I agree, too, and he needs to take your needs AND the needs and safety of his child into account.

Anyone who's worked in care homes knows people with dementia are a full-time job.

I'd continue paying the loan as usual and take legal advice regarding that aspect.

These are two separate issues, regardless of how your FIL sees it - the loan and the care.

Okay, clearly things have got out of hand. Let's start with what your FIL experienced. He's just discovered his wife has dementia. His son phones him, and instead of expressing comforting words or sympathy, says "My wife says she (FIL's wife) can't come around here for as much respite any more because she (FIL's wife) has the evil mental lurgy". OK, so he didn't say that exactly but that was how he took it. In his head, he needs more help now, not less, and now things are worse you are offering less help, not more. He's already hurt about the dementia, but he doesn't have anyone to blame about that. You (in his head) "betray him" and he lashes out.

You're going to have to start again with this. Go back to the beginning and express sympathy. Of course you are now going to have to handle things differently (no more having her babysit) but your FIL still needs his respite. He needs it more than before. Forget about the money, I'm certain he can't insist it all be paid in one lump sum even in court. The court wouldn't insist on a single lump sum if it would mean you have to sell your house.

Why are you going to still help FIL by helping MIL? I'll explain: What do you want your son to learn from this? When he's grown up, do you want him to be a man who where possible looks after the elderly when they have dementia? Or do you want him to be a man who backs off the moment they start to get "too old"? The way he will learn is by watching how his parents handle it. In a few decades time, FIL and MIL will be long gone but: Who will now need help in their old age?

kaid100, she has a 14 month old. Kids that age get more demanding, not less, and and her MIL is going to become a full time job very swiftly. Of course FIL needs respite, but that toddler relies on her parents to provide a safe, happy and settled environment, too. You cannot safely and competently care for a dementia patient and a toddler simultanously. And besides, if her FIL gets 1 week off every month, when is OP to get a rest? You know what caring for toddlers is like, but you're suggesting that she should do that 24/7, and a quarter of the time also care for a dementia patient who isn't even her relation, and never get any respite from caring whatsoever, herself? Why is someone's husband less responsible for them than a woman one of their sons married? That makes no sense to me. FIL is not ill or incapable, and is very well off so could hire in help to supplement the OP's and his other son and DIL's. Why is so much of the care to fall on this one woman's shoulders, when she has more binding duties to her own very small child? FIL isn't caring for anyone at all in his weeks off; OP never does anything but! What about her respite?

Incidentally, I appreciate it's almost certainly inadvertent but your posting tone is quite hectoring. Your constant use of the imperative "You're going to have to" "Go back to the beginning and do X" "Why are you going to do [as I say] I'll explain..." is a little blink-inducing, tbh.

OP, I think alternating months with your DH's BIL and his wife is a fantastic idea in terms of you and FIL. I am less sure that 3 homes is ideal for a woman this confused. I think maybe FIL needs to gently be talked into at least thinking about a carer, to provide respite for him and continuity for her, and that you and your DH, and BIL and his wife, visit maybe one weekend a month each instead. I just can't see shuttling her around the country as in her interests, from all that people here have said, and she can see all her family in her own environment. FIL will need a break, but maybe he could go for nice trips away himself on some of those weekends - relax, but without disrupting your MIL.

I personally think that the main problem is that your fil has not come to terms with your mils diagnosis. It is a hard thing to accept that one day your partner may not even know who you are, so it will take him time to come to terms with it. Until he accepts the diagnosis he will not ask for appropriate help ..ie carer or nursing home (depending on how bad it is). Perhaps talk to him and let him know the reasons for her not babysitting (ie safety) and let him know you struggle to give her the care and attention she needs with a toddler to care for too and you are worrying about her well being. Perhaps you could suggest that you could visit them more frequently as it would be safer and easier on your mil in her own surroundings. Give your fil time to adjust as he is probably in shock. He may have been ignoring symptoms for a long time.

MIL can go to adult day care. I think small buses pick them up. They would have activities, be with others, and have lunch. FIL would have the whole day free. Then he would have 16/7 instead of 24/7, which is still a lot. She may prefer being out for the day, if he is angry a lot of the time.

i totally understand how you dont want your MIL to babysit nor would i allow this to happen but i must say im pretty shocked at your attitude about cutting down the visits especially after the inlaws have helped you to buy a house. this is the time when families should pull together does it really hurt so much to give your FIL a much needed break,what does your husband have to say.

How's your DH holding up? It must be so hard, it being his mum, and then his dad being this way.

I think Janz makes a lot of sense, too.

Perhaps you and your dh could look up some of the services that are available in their area, like day centres as Hansie suggests, which might show FIL that you are still trying to be supportive.

Please tell me you at least pay the loan back via direct debit/cheque and don't just hand cash over. Is there documentation as to how/when/how much the loan was? I.e. a bank statement/copy of a cheque at settlement for the house?

You need to remove the money from the conversation. Either my taking out a loan from somewhere else to clear it, or by selling the house or by setting up an official payment plan via a lawyer.

YANBU to not want to care for your MIL for one week a month, and for the love of god don't let her babysit!

If you can I would suggest leaving them to cool down for a bit whilst speaking to a lawyer to sort out the money.

Leaning money is poison to families.

Loaning not leaning.

I know how difficult this situation is for you, my Grandma has vascular dementia and has lived with us for a year since she was unsafe to stay at home. I have a toddler and an due with my second next month. I do get lots of help, we have carers, day centers and respite one week a month to help out. And as difficult as things are my DS really loves her and they have some wonderfully crazy conversations.

Obviously there is no way she can look after your little one. I got round these situations by getting my grandma to help with things, dishes folding washing, helping him with meals. It really made her feel she was needed and part of the family without putting anyone at risk. if your mil does stay, try and make her feel needed and useful but just choose the tasks wisely(no ironing or making tea!). Her memory is now so bad that she doesn't ask to look after DS, to be truthful we will be lucky to still have her with us in a year at the rate she is declining.

I hope things blow over with FIL, I know you are struggling, i have days where i just dont want to start the day and face it all. I know everyone has said this is between DH and his dad, but i really don't think any decisions should be made without you, as whatever happens will affect you.

For the people saying fil should get a grip and all the other comments sit in his shoes for a minute. I do agree he is being unfair but he is in a desperate situation. Look at your partner, or someone you love dearly, imagine every few days or weeks part of them vanishes, their sense of humor, their memories of how you met who you are, they may even become abusive or violent to you. Dementia is the cruelest disease and is torture for the person and their loved ones.

Maybe you need to look into respite options as a family. I hope you can all come to a solution as a family that works for everyone.

The FIl is sounding less like a man under duress and indeed a bully. He is being ridiculous, as someone else pointed out,she can travel from him alone but not back for safety reasons?? WTF is he deluded, can you speak to their Dr?? As you helped in getting this diagnosed he maybe able to veto the staying over plans. Its clear FIL is not thinking right but he is holding you to ransom so speak to lawyer, and if at worst case get financial advice to pay him, hopefully at the continued rate.
My in laws are fine but a week a month, absolutely no way. There was a mention of a sibling, single or with a family, what is he doing?? I have a good idea as no mention of other help but you have enough with a toddler.

I certainly wouldn't give into her babysitting if you don't think its safe. That said, it wouldn't be a conversation I would have dropped by phone. I would have a family meeting in person and really try to pound it out.

You've sort of set yourself up with this visitation schedule - I wouldn't want a week long visit every month either sorry to say. However, since you've already established that it must feel like its because of her diagnosis as thats all thats changed - in which case that must not feel very supportive.

I would emphasize that you both want them to have a great relationship with their gc, which includes a generous amount of visitation but that you have some concerns as parents regarding the babysitting part.

I hope your FIL is just letting off steam....if not - I wouldn't live under anyones tyranny.

Agh! Reading through some more Daisy and man is your FIL ever throwing his weight around. You are in an impossible situation - I really feel for you. I would get some legal advice on that money so you know where you stand. Maybe he should arrange her transport and pick up if he's so interested in his week of respite (by sending his wife to a woman with a young child). Good grief!

The two issues are separate - loan and MIL.

I'd be inclined to completely ignore the loan threat. Completely. Do not raise it with FIL at all. Don't mention it. Continue to repay as before, with no change. Make it as if he has never made the threats at all. Do not engage with him about it AT ALL. If he raises it, lead the conversation back to dementia without acknowledging what he has said. If he pushes and threatens legal action, just tell him he must do what he feels he must, and lead the conversation back. Do not allow him to make it THE topic, it is not. Personally, whatever he says, I think it unlikely he would take action. And I agree with those saying he'd be very unlikely to get anywhere in the courts, as he must be aware at some level. It's just what he thinks he has as leverage.

But you (yourself, DH, BIL & SIL) will have to prevail upon your FIL that he is being unrealistic and downright cruel to his wife and you will not facilitate this in the slightest. If he can see that she could get confused on the underground, he will have to accept that the same is true of the coach. As has already been pointed out, she could alight at a rest stop and fail to get back on. Those with experience of dementia have mentioned that being out of her normal surroundings could heighten her confusion, so coming to stay at your home or at BIL/SIL's could soon become distressing for her.

You are not his respite service. But he does need some, and that is where he should be focusing his attention.

Remember, it is your home (the loan makes no difference to that) and it is for you to decide who will visit, when, how often and for how long. Your FIL cannot insist on her visiting.

I agree she cannot travel from Victoria to Walthamstow by herself, you may well have to buckle on that sorry, but twice a month really is no big deal, if you have a decent buggy and time it right it be easy to do on the underground, besides you already on the Central Line.

It doesn't matter how good her buggy is, Fabby, if her confused MIL decides to wander off into a large crowd of people, she is not going to be able to keep up with her! Like an earlier poster said, in any situation that means having to choose between MIL and baby, baby wins. And in any case, why on earth should FIL dictate to her that this is what she WILL now do, when she's clearly not up for it?

lunar1 you sound lovely

It does sound as if MIL isn´t well enough to travel to the point where OP could collect her-surely it would be better for her to either be fetched by her son or accompanied the whole way by her husband?

Or OP & her husband do the visiting?

Morning all. It seems the loan issue is sorted. Dh spoke to fil just now and he apologised and said of course he wouldn't see us homeless

The visiting issue still stands though. Fil says I am being unfair and disrespectful and he is now refusing Friday to Monday and wants Monday to Monday! Respite care was broached but apparently she is not impaired enough to warrant day care or respite.

He cant use you as respite. You are a family with a baby. You cant look after both a demented old lady and a baby in your home.

I wonder why fil is so desperate to get rid of her for 1 week out of every 4.

Don't cave into this op, he is so unreasonable.

I should add, I lost my mum at the post office.

I took her to the post office, the same post office as she has been using for the last 20 years. It was difficult to find parking, so I gave her clear instructions to just go in, take a number for the queue, and I will be there in a moment.
It was less than 2 minutes before I was in, and she was not there!
The post office was not crowded, but had a second exit, I had to get a member of staff to help me look for her. He took one exit, I took the other, and we found her around the corner, by the seafront. She had already picked up the parcel, and made her way out and start looking for my car. She had forgotten I should join her, forgotten the "geography" around the post office, and forgotten what my car looked like. She was in the process of getting a man in a black estate (similar to our old car) to get out of her daughters car....

You never really anticipate what they are and arent capable of doing, as it seems that the illness is on a downward spiral, and you are always a step behind.

Your FIL cannot make demands on when she comes, and for how long. It will all depend on who can take her to your house, and whether you have another grown up.

MY mum had emptied out tablets of paracetamol into the cereal and offered this to my son!! Of course she did not remember having done such thing, she accused my dh of trying to poison me....
Not maliciously, but she was trying to sort out her weekly medicine dosage, into her special medicine container, and just progressed to empty out the paracetamol into cereal. Made perfect sense to her.

Dementia is an illness which is bereft of self insight. It is always somebody else who has done the strange things, and of course, there is NO forgetfulness, as you never remember that you have forgotten....