Being blackmailed by in laws.

[Daisytrotter]

Sorry, more of a wwyd but am sitting here in pieces, really need advice.

Apologies if I don't reply straight away but have to pick up my friend from the airport.

My mil was diagnosed with dementia two weeks ago. This is after a year of some behaviour which could be considered odd. Interestingly, it was me who suggested that she visit her gp after I found that she had taken the fluffy inserts out of my croc shoes and was wearing them as slippers Also, she has been having some significant memory problems, but all in all she functions quite well.

Since ds was born 14 months ago, mil has come to stay with us for a week every month. Fil comes down twice a year or we go to stay with them (they live in Swansea. It's not an arrangement that I was ever happy with but ds is her first grandchild and I wanted her to have a strong relationship with him. however, her visits have become increasingly hard work for me as she turns the fridge off at the mains, leaves the back door open as well as other things which a not dangerous per se but annoying. Also dh is at work all day so I am at home with her.

When she comes down she really badgers us to go out so she can babysit. On the three occasions she has babysat, we have come back to find ds absolutely hysterical. I put it down to the fact that he doesn't really know her but now I think she may be leaving him for long periods to cry.

Anyway, since the diagnosis came to light, I spoke to dh and said that I am no longer happy for her to come for a week every month and I don't want her to babysit. I suggested that her and fil come every two months. I just have a feeling that she was using the time with us for a break for herself and i feel as her disease progresses, fil will be using the break as respite care. Dh thought this was a good idea and put it to them when he called them.

They went ballistic. Mil insisted on keeping to the arrangement of monthly visits and babysitting and fil said we were compromising her dignity. I understand that they are struggling with the diagnosis but I also have to think of ds and my own life.

Then fil dropped a bombshell. They had lent us money to buy our house and he said that if mil was not good enough to babysit then their money wasn't good enough for us either. He has demanded it back which essentially means we have to sell the house and rent as we would not be able to buy another property. He has also threatened us with legal action if we do not pay the money back in full by the end of June.

I don't know what to do. They are extremely well off and don't need the money so this is tantamount to blackmail. I have no issue with them visiting I just don't want mil every month and I certainly don't want her to babysit.

Help?

I think you have perhaps not handled it too sensitively,but I'm not there so just going by what I've read.
It would have been better to continue the visits & but certainly would have not let her babysit from now on.
I think a week a month has been too much but that is irrelevant now.
I think your fil is lashing out,he probably was enjoying the break too. If he has no official claim on the house I don't know how that would affect things.
I think your husband needs to go & visit his parents & discuss the situation.
She probably feels like it's a smack in the face on top of her medical assessment.
I do however really feel sorry for all of you particularly yr dh who must feel thoroughly caught in the middle of everyone he loves.

If you are already repaying the loan with an agreed monthly amount, I don't think there is much they can do. That doesn't resolve the unpleasant situation, though. Poor you.

a week a month is a lot to see mil when she is well. a week a month and providing an ever increasing level of care is too much to ask reallyand you were already finding it hard because of her illness. leaving the back door open could be a safety issue, there will be more safety issues, leaving things lying around etc, so i can understand you not wanting her to stay without fil/h being there.

as for the house, how much equity have you got in it now? could you get somewhere smaller etc. when you have stopped panicking you may be able to look into alternatives.

does your fil really think you will want to see them if they kick off and contribute to you being homeless? upsetting the mother of their grandchildren is not a good move, it is often the mothers that carry the load of organising trips/visits/stays. there may be nowhere for them to stay in your new home! they may calm down when they have got over the shock.

regarding the money, you would have had to pay it back sometime. if the retract the return of the loan, I would still be working to pay it back as quickly as possible. they will have less hold over you then.

I wonder how many people would have their mil for a week every month?

dh really needs to discuss this with them.

If a court even looked at the case, they wouldn't agree to you paying back the money by your FIL's date. They would (with you and him) agree a suitable time and amount in which to pay it back.

I do think just stopping the MIL visits is harsh - your inlaws will probably be shutting out the diagnosis through shock at the moment. I would just carry on with the visits - perhaps shortening them to a few days a month rather than a week and then as disease progresses, they'll probably mean they can't come as often anyway.

However, with dementia ( and this is not just bouts of forgetfulness), there is no way your MIL should be left alone to care for your DS. Dementia is extremely unpredictable and whilst you may think "well ,she's never done a,b or c yet", there's nothing to say that next time she won't.

How do you know she won't get out the iron and leave it on or carry your ds into the road and leave him there thinking it's the bath or some other random thing? It's harsh to think about but there are so many dangerous situations she could get herself into. Obviously I don't know how far on her dementia is but things can progress very quickly and as well as your ds, she may put herself in danger if she's left alone at your hosue.

Could you offer to go and stay with them every now and then to make a change? You could suggest they go out for days with your and ds; might make them feel as though you need them as well as them needing you.

I think your FIL is just angry and upset about the diagnosis and your DH needs to be really supportive and understanding because as well as being his mother, your MIL is also your FIL's wife. He will be feeling as though his world has ended pretty much.

Hope you get it all sorted out.

If you have been paying them back at an agreed rate of 400 a month then no court would force you to then pay whole sum upfront in cash within the next month. The precedent has been set, which was obviously agreed upon so realistically I think in terms of the money situation you are ok, get get the legal advice!
The bigger issue is now sorting out the other mess .

You don't sound unsympathetic to me. I wouldn't want my MIL staying for a week every month, dementia or no dementia

I agree, it must be very stressful for you with a young son and a MIL with dementia to cope with...
And now the money thing on top of it.

My mum has had alzheimer's for about the past 5 years now, it's SO hard to deal with......

Your husband needs to organise stuff like home help for them.

Whilst the current arrangement may not be possible anymore (and especially the baby-sitting) your DH FIL and the brother do need to sit down and work out how to deal withe the situation. Sorry but it will get worse, your FIL will need a break and is NBU to expect his sons and their families to help out.
I would try and keep calm, assume the threat re money was prompted by the high emotions from the diagnosis and see how things pan out

IMO YANBU to stop the babysitting or even to want to change the current arrangement but YABU to not realize this mans world has fallen in, he's going to need a huge amount of help and support from his family and probably didn't need to have had this conversation so soon afterwards (surely you could have put up with it a bit longer and just made sure she was never on her own with th baby?)

I don't think you handled it wrong. The circumstances changed. She can't be trusted to be alone with the baby. The visits are too much for you to be alone with her during the day while your DH is at work. You suggested an alternative.

What is wrong with that?

I wouldn't be putting the house on the market or worrying about paying them back in a hurry. What a shitty thing to do.

You do need to keep talking to them and explaining that whilst the diagnosis is hard you are in no way throwing them on the scrapheap but that your child's safety and welfare remains paramount and as a family you have to come to an arrangement which works for all of you.

They cannot bury their heads in the sand and presume to carry on as if nothing is wrong. Also there is nothing to say that circumstances aside the arrangements might have had to change anyway with a young baby and your changing routines. In any family it is not a given that visits of that frequency would continue to be convenient.

If they are looking to you for respite they need to start considering alternatives as it will only get worse. At no point would I be leaving the baby alone with her or him for that matter (given his outburst).

I would stick to the visits and put up with the annoying stuff but I wouldn't budge on the babysitting.
I would let them know in no uncertain terms that you WON'T be blackmailed which is what this is and I would turn the tables back on them and say that if they force you to sell the roof over your families head they will see none of you again. (although I agree with others that it would be unlikely that you would have to return the money in one lump sum).
I know that they must be devastated by the dianosis but they have no right to put you in a position were you have to choose whether to endanger your child or lose your home.

OP didn't stop her visits.

They suggested MIL/FIL come together every couple of months rather than separately at the previous frequency.

Nothing wrong with that AT ALL.

I think you all need to accept that this a very stressful time for the family and that as a result no-one has behaved well. Clearly it's unreasonable for your FIL to demand the money back, but he will be upset and feeling under a lot of pressure. It's not unreasonable for anybody to think a week a month with their MIL is too much, but your timing for mentioning it was terrible. And yes, your FIL was probably see it as respite - reasonable from his point of you, but not from yours.

Your DH needs to negotiate for you all to sit down together and talk about the issues honestly, face to face. That should include what support your MIL/FIL are going to need and how you can help (e.g. by helping to sort respite care in their area for them). It should also include honesty about it now being inappropriate for your MIL to have any sole care of your child, but reassurance that that doesn't mean you want to prevent them having a close relationship. And of course your FIL needs to understand the unreasonableness of demanding the money back

I would guess the money aspect was a split second reation to the whole problem by FIL lashing out and that he will back track on it.
I have a relative with vascular dementia, there is no way I could have managed having them stay with me once a week when I had a young baby/toddler. My relative needs so much care to make sure she stays safe and frequently doing things which are dangerous to her and others around her and things that are unhygenic, for example(leaving pans on the cooker, leaving soiled clothing in strange places ) of course she cant help it and I feel very sad that she is suffering like this. I would not leave my children with her, as she is in no position to look after other people, she needs care herself.
As you have said, the stepwise aspect of the condition means she may deteriourate suddenly, so she may come for a visit and then need much more care the next time. When things have calmed down I think talking things through with your FIL will provide a solution, supporting him to get some respite care rather than relying on you to do it, and being firm that while you will help where you can, you are not able to provide 1 week in 4 care for her and look after your son which is understandable.

If the money was a gift so no documents saying it was a loan, then if he really does take you to court, can you not retaliate with 'she owes x for rent 1 week a month for x months'? It is all shitty - I think it was very badly timed on your part, she must have been devastated at her diagnosis then you immediately show her how it will impact her life when what she needs is things to stay the same as far as possible. Obviously nobody could expect you to let her babysit alone after such a diagnosis, but I think phasing the visits out slowly would have been kinder...

could you FIL come too and help with your MIL and be there to help babysit

I wouldn't have my own mother one week in every four. I love her but......

Your father-in-law is using you as respite care. You have to stand up to this and say you can no longer cope. You are well within your rights to refuse to allow MiL to babysit however that possibly should be handled without directly saying this. She cannot order you to hand over the DC to be babysat. They are your DC for you to decide.

I agree that DP needs to handle this and perhaps time is needed to let things calm down

Oh dear what a mess.

Your fil probably does need the break if you struggle think about how he's coping. You are all under a lot of pressure and some difficult decision and conversations need to be had.

It's insane to suggest that you should leave a woman with rapidly-deteriorating dementia alone with a toddler. It's actually something social services would (rightly) be interested in I think, as it would be actively neglectful.

One week a month with your MIL is a long time, even when she isn't unwell, if she isn't your favourite person anyway. If she has dementia and you have a toddler and you are still offering a week per two months that is still bloody generous of you. I wonder how much exposure people being critical have had to someone with dementia; it can be heartbreaking but it can also be absolutely sodding infuriating. It's totally unreasonable of your FIL to expect someone to juggle a toddler and a dementia patient for more than you're already offering.

I do see that this is very painful for her and to be told that she can't care for her dgc must be horrible, too. But that is her and his responsibility to deal with, as adults - your responsibility is to your child, as of course you know.

Post on legal. There are family & property lawyers to advise there. I think (not being a lawyer) that money from a father to a child to buy a house is presumed to be a gift in law (ordinarily, in any other relationship. the presumption is all the other way) but that the presumption is very, very easily rebuttable these days, so you probably would be expected to repay them unless it was indeed a gift and you have an email or something saying as much. Hopefully it won't come to that though - bear in mind that your FIL is going to want that week off every other month, plus contact with his son and dgc, so in fact he has a great deal to lose here himself. If he calms down it should be okay. I think maybe it might be worth remembering that care for someone with dementia is hideously expensive, though, so as she deteriorates he may genuinely come to need that dosh. It's worth perhaps making it clear that you do understand that. You have to be very, very rich before that kind of care wouldn't be a struggle.

Get your DH to spell out that you do want to help, and you appreciate the situation, but that the priority is the child. You can point out that social services would intervene if you let her babysit and they found out - it's downright dangerous. A week every two months is the best you can offer now. And if he pushes it over the money I'd just say that that is fine, you will sell and then rent. I don't see you have any other option. In the current market if you price your house quite steeply it won't sell anyway, so not a problem! And while it is on the market he has time to chill out and then change his mind. (Not even having that one week off every two months might concentrate his mind wonderfully, of course.)

For the record I'd not be willing to look after either of my in-laws if they had dementia. (And they put their parents in homes and visited once a year, at Xmas, before anyone's judgeypants get too tight.) I think people here should stop and think about having someone even a full week every 2 months, given how bad it's likely to get, when they have a toddler and may have another baby (?) in the next year or so as well. Easy to be idealistic when it isn't your burden.

Agree with LaVache, hopefully your FIL is just lashing out re. the money. A friend of mine was in a very different scenario to yourself yet had a similar situation with money being demanded back, thankfully it has now calmed down. As we've never met you FIL, it's difficult to judge but could he simply be grief stricken? People can behave aggressively when they have something like that to deal with.

As awful as it is for your FIL I think he needs to accept that it may not be practical for the monthly visits to continue IN THE FUTURE. Babysitting is definitely out of the question and even if she's just staying with you, what if she does something really dangerous?! If he is well off is it possible to get help from elsewhere?

There's a possibility that my MIL is also on the verge of dementia, she's still quite young but things are looking like they're going that way. I havn't been happy with her looking after the kids are some time for various reasons but the difficulty we have is that she doesn't seem to understand why she can't look after the kids. Is that a prob with your MIL too? It's very difficult to confront someone about something like that. I'm just wondering if you'd feel different about it if she was just staying with you and not babysitting.

My God - a week every month would be a lot to put up with, with any MIL. Let alone one who's losing her marbles.

Mil insisted on keeping to the arrangement of monthly visits and babysitting

She has no right to insist who you have in your house and when, for heavens sake.

Ultimately, since she's so keen to see your DS, you hold the cards.

Say "It is our house and we have the right to decide who visits, when they visit, how long they visit for and what they are permitted to do with my DS when they are here. You do not decide this. We do. If you insist on blackmailing us with the money, go ahead and take us to court but be aware that you will NEVER see your grandchild again if you do"

Chances are they're bluffing, but just in case they aren't, the above should do the trick if they're/she's as keen on seeing your child as she seems to be.

Erm, I really don't agree that using the child to blackmail them right back is sensible. It should be made clear that trying to blackmail is an absolute no-go, and that visits will be for single days and no nights if they do this, and less frequent, but I don't think stooping to their level is a good idea.

I agree that the OP should stand firm. I agree that the IL will probably fold when they realise what they stand to lose, and I COMPLETELY agree that it is up to OP and her husband as to when and for how long guests stay in their home. I just think using their child as a weapon and blackmailing back is not on. The view from the moral high ground being more scenic, and all that.

Also think court action would be a very bad idea. If they insist they want the money back then a (very relaxed) effort to sell the house might be wise. Apart from anything else, the OP and her DH might end up being forced to pay both sides' legal costs if the money was plainly a loan and they should be repaying it. (Again, post on legal, that's guesswork on my part.)

I also agree with ShinyRedShoes that FIL may be acting so appallingly because he's grieving himself. People can behave badly in that kind of situation - hopefully he'll come round.

Yes - the "stooping to their level" thing SOUNDS ever so worthy and proper, but I highly doubt that the sort of people who will start demanding a loan back out of spite are going to appreciate it.

I do agree with Perfectstorm to a degree though; saying something along the lines of "OK, well if that's how you feel then fair enough. We'll put the house on the market as soon as we can. You'll have your money back the minute it's sold. Take care" isn't exactly blackmailing them right back; but it might convince them that they stand to lose more than you do, in the long run.

I don't think it would be using the child to blackmail. If my inlaws insisted on putting my child in danger and tried to blackmail me if I refused - causing us to have to sell the roof over our heads - they would have demonstrated that they are selfish beyond belief and were detrimental to our lives so it would be completely natural to not want to see them.
Fair enough if it's something they've said in the heat of the moment during a stressful time but if FIL doesn't phone back after he's had some time to think and unreservedly apologise for what they've threatened you with I don't think I could continue to have a relationship with them.

Also the way they are behaving is creating serious doubt as to whether children would be safe left in either of their care.

squeakytoy, Sorry, but your reaction and 'advice' is among the worst I have ever heard here! For goodness sake, the women has dementia how THE HELL is the opening poster supposed to deal with this every week in four??!! . This is not to mention the (default) blackmail.
To the OP, tell them to stick their money. B*ards that they are and learn a valuable lesson, NEVER EVER EVER accept large sums of money from in-laws. At least with a bank, they don't take/give money based on emotional blackmail.
I hope that some here can help you with the legal side, your fil may NOT be able to force you go give money back so early, I hope so. All the best.