Being blackmailed by in laws.

[Daisytrotter]

Sorry, more of a wwyd but am sitting here in pieces, really need advice.

Apologies if I don't reply straight away but have to pick up my friend from the airport.

My mil was diagnosed with dementia two weeks ago. This is after a year of some behaviour which could be considered odd. Interestingly, it was me who suggested that she visit her gp after I found that she had taken the fluffy inserts out of my croc shoes and was wearing them as slippers Also, she has been having some significant memory problems, but all in all she functions quite well.

Since ds was born 14 months ago, mil has come to stay with us for a week every month. Fil comes down twice a year or we go to stay with them (they live in Swansea. It's not an arrangement that I was ever happy with but ds is her first grandchild and I wanted her to have a strong relationship with him. however, her visits have become increasingly hard work for me as she turns the fridge off at the mains, leaves the back door open as well as other things which a not dangerous per se but annoying. Also dh is at work all day so I am at home with her.

When she comes down she really badgers us to go out so she can babysit. On the three occasions she has babysat, we have come back to find ds absolutely hysterical. I put it down to the fact that he doesn't really know her but now I think she may be leaving him for long periods to cry.

Anyway, since the diagnosis came to light, I spoke to dh and said that I am no longer happy for her to come for a week every month and I don't want her to babysit. I suggested that her and fil come every two months. I just have a feeling that she was using the time with us for a break for herself and i feel as her disease progresses, fil will be using the break as respite care. Dh thought this was a good idea and put it to them when he called them.

They went ballistic. Mil insisted on keeping to the arrangement of monthly visits and babysitting and fil said we were compromising her dignity. I understand that they are struggling with the diagnosis but I also have to think of ds and my own life.

Then fil dropped a bombshell. They had lent us money to buy our house and he said that if mil was not good enough to babysit then their money wasn't good enough for us either. He has demanded it back which essentially means we have to sell the house and rent as we would not be able to buy another property. He has also threatened us with legal action if we do not pay the money back in full by the end of June.

I don't know what to do. They are extremely well off and don't need the money so this is tantamount to blackmail. I have no issue with them visiting I just don't want mil every month and I certainly don't want her to babysit.

Help?

Haven't read the whole thread so apologies if repeating anyone.

It's very sad that your MIL has had this diagnosis, but that doesn't excuse your FIL being a complete bastard. You cannot allow him to blackmail you like this.

I don't know your financial situation or the legal ins and outs of any agreements you made at the outset - but if no contract was drawn up, and the house is in your names, not your FILs, I doubt the 'legal action' could come to much - at worst maybe a long term repayment agreement at an amount you can afford (if he does actually follow his threat through, that is).

Whatever the outcome is, I would do whatever I had to to pay them back and not be owing to them anymore - your FIL clearly sees his 'loan' as a lever to control you with.

Personally I would want no more to do with someone who was prepared to threaten to make me and my DCs homeless if I didn't go along with their wishes - but obviously that's your call.

Suggest to him that he gets a live-in housekeeper (you said that they are wealthy) which will ease the burden and allow him to have some time on his own. In reality the housekeeper can be a live in carer for MIL.

DrMuffy, to be fair it would mean he never had any respite at all. And though he is being an arse (and poor MIL may well be far better in her own home) 24/7/12 caring for someone with dementia would be a nightmare for anyone. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I know a chap who did it and it was heartbreaking - he was young, single and just left uni. Horrendous, I remember he wasn't able to join his mates on nights out hardly ever, as he couldn't leave her alone. His mum had died, so he felt it was up to him to care for his gran until she died. Still in awe he did it - has a happy , thankfully, as a couple of years on he met the loveliest girl, who is now mum to his dd, and about to have their ds! Karma worked, for once.

I agree with perfectstorm that what FabbyChic has said is nonsense. Since there are provable repayments, it could only be regarded as a loan and not a gift.

However, I wouldn't regard that a condition of the loan is that the OP and her DH provide respite care - which essentially is what they've been doing for some while.

But even if that were the case, one party to the contract cannot now add further conditions unilaterally. The requirement for Daisy to travel into London to meet her MIL off the coach is unreasonable, particularly because it indicates very clearly that her FIL is aware of MIL's decreasing cognitive faculties and he should not be putting her on a coach unaccompanied. If he wants to transfer his DW into the care of other people, to give himself a break, he should be escorting his DW safely himself or pay for a suitable escort.

I think it's significant that the FIL only has direct contact with his DS and family maybe twice a year, yet insists on a continuance of his DW being away from him twelve times a year for a week at a time despite her deteriorating condition.

I really don't think this is a FIL who is falling to pieces because of his wife's diagnosis. He sounds like a self-absorbed bully which, if that's the case, will be difficult for the OP's DH to deal with.

My advice to Daisy (but only from the law of commonsense) is to separate out the two issues:

The money: It's a loan - continue the repayments.

MIL visits: On your terms, and your terms only. But best be in her own home for her sake.

Quint talks a lot of sense about dementia and I've thought well of her posts about this before.

FWIW, my mother has dementia. Before she was diagnosed my father was in complete denial about her memory loss and odd behaviours. It took a long time to get her assessed and diagnosed. What I'm trying to say is that you FIL is finally having to face up to losing his wife and it's happening now.

I think that you have been amazing having your mil to stay for 1 week in 4 and I don't think I could ever have done that however wonderful my mil was. Nevertheless, it probably wasn't good timing to stop the visits right now.

Re the money, I think that you fil is trying to get some control over the situation which is far outside of his control. It's not appropriate but often people behave in strange ways when they are grieving. That is why he's making these threats. That said, I think that you need to see a solicitor to get some professional advice. Unfortunately, you fil seems to feel that he has an entitlement to send mil to your house for care on a regular basis.

Coming back to my own experiences. When I had my dc1, my mother wanted to take dc1 out for walks on her own and be left with him in the house to have him to herself but I couldn't allow this. I couldn't leave him with someone who I didn't think was a suitable carer. I think that this is a decision that all parents have to make everytime they let their child out of their own care. My father thought I was unreasonable (see above) because my mother would have dearly liked to have had some time out with dc1. My siblings thought I was absolutely awful for not allowing it and told me so at the time. However , they didn't have young children of their own to put in that situation. I still feel some years later that I made the right decision because I had to put his safety first but I do wish I hadn't been in that position iyswim.

I think that one or two posters have been very harsh towards you and their posts do make me doubt that they have a clear understanding of what is happening. I do have my mother to stay quite regularly still but it's become increasingly difficult as her illness has progressed. She's becoming more and more distressed each time because she doesn't know who I am or where she is. She's also become quite aggressive towards me.

I don't think that you should be trying to travel on the tube with mil and a toddler + pushchair, it's far too much. Has fil thought of using a taxi for transport.

I think it would be best to see a solicitor on Tuesday or contact one and set up an appointment.

He clearly sees it as he has purchased respite care from you via this loan, which you are also paying back.

It is not safe for you to transport this lady on the tube with a small child in tow.

He cannot also demand that you take her at all.

There's no formal care agreement just like there's no formal loan agreement.

For now, if I were you DH, I'd tell him those conditions aren't acceptable and that, unfortunately, I feel compelled to take legal advice on the loan, which I consider a separate issue.

Although, personally, if the only way I could afford a house were to secure monies from a family member in the form of a loan, I'd have continued to rent.

My father put it best, 'If I don't have it to give (to my family), then I don't open my mouth at all.'

WTF does he mean that 'that is the only way he will agree to Friday to Monday visits'??

He hasn't got much choice but to agree! You call the shots here, not him! Maybe you could compromise and let dh pick her up on Friday nights and take her back Monday night after work. But if you don't want to do that or can't do that then don't! It is that simple.

Let him go to court to demand his money back. If you're worried, get some legal advice first, but I would have thought that legally, you are not in a bad position. It would be well worth posting on legal to find out.

"Dh suggested that mil visits from Friday to Monday rather than Monday to Friday which is what she was previously doing. At least this means dh will be home at the weekend so I have some support. It's not perfect but if it stops a financial calamity then I'm all for it."

"he said it is the only way he will agree to Friday to Monday visits."

Why are you allowing him to call the shots?

Tell them that in future you will be doing the visits to them.
Why would paxing him back & either getting a loan from somewhere else or renting be a calamity?

As I said before, what would you be doing íf there had been no money from him?

perfectstorm, I do understand that if he came at the weekends with her then it would be no respite for him at all. I was just thinking that, in the absence of him organising a completely separate scenario for respite, this would be something that could happen right now. Then maybe he could nip out for a bit on his own while OP and her DH look after MIL. Not ideal, but still affords him some downtime, iyswim?

I am in complete admiration of anyone that can selflessly care for an ill relative when it disrupts their own life. I think they are made of better stuff than I.

This is rapidly getting worse, perhaps because MIL is deteriorating quickly with the vascular dementia. She cannot babysit, be left alone, or travel alone. All those things are gone. FIL needs to get some care figured out and has the money to get help, he just has to part with it. I realize he is stressed but it is only going to get worse. I think the advice of seeing a lawyer re the loan is spot on.

I am astonished that you had her to stay for a week every month. That was incredibly accommodating of you.
It sounds like you were never really happy with that arrangement and it was perhaps a bit of a knee jerk reaction saying the visits had to stop when she was diagnosed.

I also think it is for your dh to negotiate with his parents

My goodness, this seems to be a deteriorating situation.

If your FIL recognises that your MIL cannot be safe to travel by tube, then why on earth is he happy for her to travel by coach unaccompanied?. Has your DH asked him that question? What's to stop her getting off at a rest stop and not getting back on the coach? Will she manage toileting on the journey?

You could make it your DH's problem and tell him that you are fine with the Fri - Mon arrangement but DH will have to fetch his mother as if you have to look after them both on the journey then your DS will be prioritised. Or what about a paid chaperone service?

I'm quite flabergasted that FIL thinks this coach journey is suitable.

On the money front, your FIL must know that you cannot repay the money by June. I wonder if he has made this 'condition' as he knows it is unrealistic, therefore it will push you into a corner.

Can you borrow the money elsewhere?

Agree with Hugly that it sounds like he was like this before the diagnosis. And given that the diagnosis is recent, and the loan isn't, his now seeking to connect it with respite care (turning a no-strings loan into an increasingly demanding retroactive very-highly-strung contract, in effect) is awful.

Again, you need legal advice. If he has no hold on you then he will just have to accept what you offer out of the goodness of your (very soft!) hearts, and you won't constantly have to give in. Because as time goes on he may demand more, and not less of you.

I really hope that it's the case that he is bluffing. And I must say that unless you're in massive negative equity or something, renting really isn't the end of the world, anyway.

Am really concerned by his blatant disinterest in your MIL welfare, though. Changes on environment, and public transport in central London, aren't exactly ideal for people with dementia! He could make her a lot worse a lot faster by insisting on this, just because it suits him.

Surely this lady, the MIL will have somebody looking after her best interests who will not allow her to travel on a coach alone, some sort of social worker ? Any respite care which is required should be provided by a professional carer not a reluctant daughter unlawful or beholden son.

I suggest you find out as much information about vascular dementia as you can, Imo you would be irresponsible to allow MIL sole care of your son...if you don't put your foot down now it will be harder later on when FIL is used to the respite from Dementia.

I also think everyone needs a bit of a break from each other, bursting in now while everyone is still dealing with the diagnosis will only make things wose. Be firm,state that you will ALWAYS put your child's welfare first and if they have a problem with that they will have to sue you or whatever, but make it clear if they do this you will not be having further contact with them.

I think your FIL needs time to adjust but you and your OH need to be firm together and not budge an inch.

Dementia is not curable and in the later stages is pretty damaging. I wish you the best of luck and sympathise with your situation.

Been thinking about this some more.

I don't think you should 'agree' to these visits at all. What will your FIL do? What can he do? Force you?

How much money are we talking here, though understand you might not want to say?

Really, if you call his bluff he can't really do much to recover his loan in the short term can he.

I would leave it for now, until you have gotten some legal advice and cease all contact in the short term to establish what your legal position is WRT the loan. Do not discuss on the phone.

I would also not be discussing anything with any other members of your family- you have not said if you have, you do not need any others getting their oars in.

If at all possible, after taking legal advice, I would want to see them face to face.

And lastly, I still sort of stand by my earlier post call his bluff he is being a bully your FIL shame on him.

This is so sad! Your dh needs to go and have a face to face firm chat! I totally understand parents helping their dcs to get a house if they can afford it, but most decent parents would NEVER dream of putting these kind of conditions on that.

OP, don't want to add to your distress, but...

The lady across the street's DH had dementia for several years before he died. All the time she kept having work done on her house. Everyone knew she was having a pretty blatant affair with the contractor. Now he is gone, they are openly together.

Your FIL's unfathomable insistence on having one week of alone time every month: do you think he knows full well about his wife's diagnosis and is seeing someone else?

Perhaps completely unwarranted, but there you are, just a thought.

Just shown dh this thread. A heartfelt thank you to those of you who shared your truly sad stories of having loved ones with dementia.

Dh thinks the loan thing will blow over. He said his father has a habit of making grandiose threats but never carrying them out. He thinks he is just in complete denial of mil diagnosis and is lashing out.

We're still discussing the visiting arrangements. Dh's brother and his wife (who have no dc's) have kindly offered to have her every other month for a week. We will put it to them and see what they think. It still doesn't solve how she will get here. Dh will speak to his father tomorrow.

Oh for goodness sakes - who's in charge around here!

The FIL just needs some firm handling - tell him to pack it in and orientate him to the reality of the situation. No, the visits and babysitting can't continue so he better get used to it - or you're all going to fall out.

He needs you more than you need him. Withdrawing the loan is an empty threat.

"Dh thinks the loan thing will blow over."

Maybe so-but why would your husband want to continue it?

At least you know why mil was behaving in a strange way. In her eyes all she has left in this world is her grandchild. In her eyes she doenst realise how bad she has got, she has just recieved bad news from the doctor. Then on top of that her trips down to you are changing, she probably broke down and took it out of her husband. Then of course his angry and the phone call happened.

Your dh needs to make some calls one to his brother to ask him if he can look after his mum on a regular basis, or go and visit for long weekends. I would suggest you go and visit as a family for a long weekend staying with them once every three months to give fil a brief break.

Your dh needs to call your fil after speaking to his brother to explain that you cannot cope looking after both mil and your child as its too demanding and you have struggled in the past trying to cope.

I wouldnt advise speaking about the money until fil brings it up and say if
you really need the money back, then, we will have to sell this house. Of course this will mean we will have to move to a cheaper area and will have to rent out a tiny flat. We wont have the room for anyone to come and stay the place wont be big enough.

Honestly your dh will probably need a strong drink after the converstation.

If you go down the road of you have nothing in writing we arent paying you back then it could end up with never seeing the inlaws again. Having a huge rift in the family which isnt nice.

Good luck.

I really think your DH is the only person who should be having a conversation with his parents about the whole thing. He's an adult and his dad needs to be told this is unacceptable.

Toddlers and Demented mothers (and MIL's) do not mix. It is impossible, you must be fraught as you have been coping with this for a long time prior to the diagnosis. You are right in saying that you cannot carry on with this. Either visit there or take her on weekend when husband is there