Being blackmailed by in laws.

[Daisytrotter]

Sorry, more of a wwyd but am sitting here in pieces, really need advice.

Apologies if I don't reply straight away but have to pick up my friend from the airport.

My mil was diagnosed with dementia two weeks ago. This is after a year of some behaviour which could be considered odd. Interestingly, it was me who suggested that she visit her gp after I found that she had taken the fluffy inserts out of my croc shoes and was wearing them as slippers Also, she has been having some significant memory problems, but all in all she functions quite well.

Since ds was born 14 months ago, mil has come to stay with us for a week every month. Fil comes down twice a year or we go to stay with them (they live in Swansea. It's not an arrangement that I was ever happy with but ds is her first grandchild and I wanted her to have a strong relationship with him. however, her visits have become increasingly hard work for me as she turns the fridge off at the mains, leaves the back door open as well as other things which a not dangerous per se but annoying. Also dh is at work all day so I am at home with her.

When she comes down she really badgers us to go out so she can babysit. On the three occasions she has babysat, we have come back to find ds absolutely hysterical. I put it down to the fact that he doesn't really know her but now I think she may be leaving him for long periods to cry.

Anyway, since the diagnosis came to light, I spoke to dh and said that I am no longer happy for her to come for a week every month and I don't want her to babysit. I suggested that her and fil come every two months. I just have a feeling that she was using the time with us for a break for herself and i feel as her disease progresses, fil will be using the break as respite care. Dh thought this was a good idea and put it to them when he called them.

They went ballistic. Mil insisted on keeping to the arrangement of monthly visits and babysitting and fil said we were compromising her dignity. I understand that they are struggling with the diagnosis but I also have to think of ds and my own life.

Then fil dropped a bombshell. They had lent us money to buy our house and he said that if mil was not good enough to babysit then their money wasn't good enough for us either. He has demanded it back which essentially means we have to sell the house and rent as we would not be able to buy another property. He has also threatened us with legal action if we do not pay the money back in full by the end of June.

I don't know what to do. They are extremely well off and don't need the money so this is tantamount to blackmail. I have no issue with them visiting I just don't want mil every month and I certainly don't want her to babysit.

Help?

OP you have my sympathy on all levels here. I adore my (perfectly healthy) MIL, but could not have her (or anyone else) in my house for a week every month.

I have also lived through 5 years of my father's dementia (I live next door to my mother, so was on the spot most of the time). Quintessential is very right about couples unconsciously adapting to one person's dementia, and making it seem "normal".

When my father's dementia was still fairly mild, my mother also looked after my DS1 (from when he was 12 months, until he was 2.5) one day per week when I was at work. This was on the basis that if there was ever a time (and there were quite a few) that she couldn't cope, I had an alternative arrangement in place that could be used at short notice. While my mother loved looking after DS1 (they are still very close), just the one day of this per week, while also looking after my father, was exhausting for her.

It will be very hard for your FIL to accept:
a) that MIL has dementia
b) the difficulty of looking after MIL and children at the same time, particularly if he has never been a stay at home parent, which presumably he hasn't.

That said, I still think he is being unreasonable in his reaction, and bringing the financial aspect into it is not at all helpful. I think your DH needs to have a calm conversation, face to face, with his father - to explain that you both understand that this is a difficult time, but that there is no way you can be expected to provide the respite care. Social care budgets are being cut at the moment, but certainly for my father, my mother was entitled to a certain amount of free respite care per month, including night sitting, which became very useful. Perhaps looking into the options that could help your FIL might be a way you can offer to help him, rather than you being expected to provide the hands-on care?

I haven't read the rest of the thread, so apologies if it has moved on or I've missed significant info.

I don't blame you at all for not wanting you mil to stay for a week every month, but I think that your timing in this is incredibly insensitive. They must be absolutely reeling at the diagnosis, and this would just seem like a slap in the face. It sounds like your fil is lashing out in anger, as someone else said. It sounds to me as though you need to backtrack a bit; continue the normal routine for visits, but no babysitting. After all; you've been putting up with this situation for over a year, a few more months presumably won't make a huge difference. Then as her condition deteriorates, you could scale back the visits. I think YANBU to not want her there so much, and not want her to babysit, but YABU to have said this to them now.

Please listen to quint and show this thread to your dp.

Quint, I just wanted to say how very sorry I am. Heartbreaking and I hope you are getting lots of support yourself.

I was in same position with my darling Mum and echo what Quint has said. Mum could cope fairly well in her own environment but was a NIGHTMARE when out of familiar surroundings.

I do hope your situation resolves itself Daisy. I would think your FIL is reeling with shock and is trying to support his wife and you have been caught in the crossfire.

Please show your DH this thread and pass on my sympathy.

A lot of people will tell you horror stories about dementia but I can only say that my Mum remained a sweet and lovely lady all her confused life.

I wish the same for your MIL .

He cannot take legal action about money that there is no contract for, you can say it was a gift. Don't worry about the money.

He needs to understand the impact of her behaviour on yours and your sons life, she cannot be left alone with the baby at all.

How about having her for a weekend a month? But no babysitting.

Well, to me, as much as anything else, it´s the age old problem of money from parents-who then feel that they own you.

The week a month has been "payment".

So, OP, what would have done about housing if they hadn´t given the money?

Knowing how they feel, why would you want to be in a house bought with their money?

I´d seriously look at paying back & being in control tbh.

And YANBU to not want to look after your MIL or for her to not look after your baby.

Does FIL work-is that why he doesn´t visit often?

"He cannot take legal action about money that there is no contract for, you can say it was a gift."

Rubbish. Sorry, but rubbish. Do we need to have this conversation again, Fabbychic? STOP GIVING PEOPLE LEGAL ADVICE. It has never - and I do mean, never - been right yet, and this is the fourth time this week! Contracts do not need to be on paper (do you sign a contract every time you buy something in a shop, if you pay in cash? Because that is a contract, hence you go after a shop if they sell you something and it's duff - and no, a receipt is not a contract either, it is just proof of payment!) and this is NOT a contract anyway; a contract simply requires a mutual agreement for someone to do or provide something ("performance") in exchange for something else ("consideration"). A loan is not a contract, necessarily, and this one is not because there is no performance - they don't have to do anything to get the money in the first place. And the fact she has been repaying every month is evidence it was not a gift, but a loan, too.

People in difficult and tough situations don't need to be told something as a fact when it isn't remotely accurate. You can make it worse for them. Just stop - please. Refer people to legal where there are people who do, actually, know the law and are equipped to advise. Please, Fabby I am not trying to be arsey, but you are talking to scared and vulnerable people and pronouncing - on divorce settlements you said you knew because your mum was divorced 25 years ago! That is not a legal qualification.

This is plainly a loan, written or not, and I can't imagine a scenario in which it wouldn't have to be repaid. However it seems grossly unlikely to me that a judge would force a sale of the family home, if the loan was agreed on terms where it was to be repaid at a set rate every month, and they are keeping to their side and paying on time and in full. BUT I simply don't know for sure, and could be wrong on that. I am not a lawyer either. I only know the vaguest outlines on this subject. She should ask on legal, where posters will know.

Wouldn´t the fact that the OP pays back the same amount monthly be construed as a "contract"?

Thanks for the replies. Some helpful suggestions.

Dh spoke to his dad while I was out. Fil isn't budging, if anything he is more angry as he says he feels abandoned which I can understand.

Dh suggested that mil visits from Friday to Monday rather than Monday to Friday which is what she was previously doing. At least this means dh will be home at the weekend so I have some support. It's not perfect but if it stops a financial calamity then I'm all for it.

The only problem is this. Dh asked his dad whether she was still fit to travel to east London unaccompanied. She gets the coach and then the underground from Victoria to walthamstow. Fil said I would have to now meet her at Victoria station and bring her back to our house as he felt concerned that she may get lost. he said it is the only way he will agree to Friday to Monday visits.

I told dh that there is no way I am dragging my ds into London and back. I hate the underground as it is.

I don't think I can cope with this any longer. I feel like we're back at square one.

I am reminded of a story I read a while ago (maybe on here, but I think somewhere else) where a couple had split and the woman wished to keep the engagement ring and other posessions that had been purchased for her by her (now ex) partner. She regarded them as gifts and therefore felt she had the right to keep them. That may have been correct, until the point she and the ex had an emailed (and, therefore, documented) conversation about her giving the items, including the ring, back. She said she would give them back to get him off her back, but he later used the emails as proof that the things were not hers to keep and that she had stated as such. He got them back.

Please be very careful OP. Watch everything you say/write/type/etc to the ILs atm. Sometimes you just don't know what you're agreeing to until it's too late to get out of it. Some of the advice and the suggested comebacks to the ILs have been very obviously well meaning, but may come back to haunt you were you to actually go forth with them.

And, as perfectstorm says, a contract is not always obvious and doesn't have to be on paper to be legally binding.

Your fil is a tool.

No advice tbh as I would now not be speaking to them at all.

How far away is everyone from each other?

If she can´t travel it is not(imo) you responsibility to be meeting/fetching her.

Can you, your husbad & son start to visit them?

Or your husband fetch her?

It´s not (again imo) up to the ILs to dictate when & for how long they visit you at your house.

FIL is being cruel, but it sounds like he's doing it because he feels backed into a corner with no support. It's not your place to rescue him, but you need to 'handle' him regardless.

How would he expect the transport to happen if MIL were to come to you for the same time periods as before? Would you still be expected to meet her at a changed point? What is your issue with the underground? I'm not saying you're unreasonable to say no to this btw, just trying to understand your motivation for saying no to that part.

What EnormaSnob said.

At least MIL has got the excuse that she's batty. FIL just sounds like a wanker.

You are not going to like this; but my advice is to pay them back asap. If you can, get a loan from another source like a bank- at least the bank won't be laying this sort of s*it on you. You will never be free or mistress of your own home until this debt is repaid to fil.

Yep - pay 'em back and dump 'em.

He has no right at all to dictate visits to your home, nor that you go out of your way to facilitate them.

Daisy, isn't it an issue that uour MIL needs stability and a steady environment, anyway? Might it not be better for her sake if you all go up there that weekend - or would that be to much for you, too?

Please get advice on the legal side re the loan. I don't think he can force you to sell the house if you are repaying exactly as was always agreed, though as I say I may be completely wrong. Legal may have really positive news for you - I mean, if the worst that can happen is that you pay the 400 a month as always, then nothing has changed, has it? And you aren't in such a horribly unequal situation then. You need to get that established asap so you can negotiate how to support your MIL and him without him blackmailing you.

I'm horrified that your FIL is saying a woman too confused to cross London alone should be left in sole charge of a 14 month old. I note that angle has been dropped, while the ante on care has been upped. And the idea you should deal with a confused dementia patient and a baby on the Underground, alone, is bonkers - not to mention that the tube will potentially be terrifying for your poor MIL, and quite soon. He's not thinking of her, he's thinking of himself.

Please put nothing - and I mean nothing - about the money in writing in emails or letters, at least without legal advice first. Tidydancer is spot on.

FIL is being a tool. If he feels abandoned, ostracising the people that are trying their best to help is not doing him any favours.

At this point I would be done. Ridiculous to expect you to manage a toddler and the unknown entity that is MIL on the underground by yourself. Ridiculous that he thinks he can dictate what you do! Especially when you are not a blood relative! DH's mother, DH's responsibility to be picking her up and making sure she's safe. I know that sounds cold and harsh.

Is there a way you can borrow the money from elsewhere and just pay them back? And then they have no hold over you at all. That would be what I would do, it puts everyone on a more equal footing, and you won't feel as obligated to go along with his demands.

FIL sounds angry, frightened and stubborn.

Your DH needs to go visit his parents on his own. He needs to ask his father how he is coping with MIL and the diagnosis and what is going on day to day.

In my parents case my dad has gradually taken over the entire running of the house. But I know some men could not do that asthey wouldn't have a clue where to start.

FIL needs to know he is not on his own in this and that you, DH and BIL will help as much as you CAN. A week a month or MIL travelling alone is not practical for anyone.

He obv needs the respite the week she is away gives him. Maybe more than you know.

But it needs an honest and open face to face conversation to sort.

I think your fil is being like this because it is probably all he knows; are his riches something he 'made' himself? If so, money has been a weapon for him in his life and he is trying to bend you to his will by using the best weapon he knows.

I also think that if you were to pay him back in full asap and tell him to get knotted (but obviously still make him and mil welcome to see grandchild when it suits you ), he would probably respect that. I don't think he respects you or your dh much at the moment, as he obviously is not listening to either of you. I suspect he only respects those he sees as equals and bullies those who he deems to be weaker than him.

Sticking to finger up to him -metaphorically speaking- and saying, 'here's your effing money' may make you go up in his estimation.

If FIL is so adamant that she visits, is there a reason that he can't bring her and stay to make sure she's safe? That would still relieve the burden a little for him, wouldn't it? Three adults to watch instead of just him?

I think you need to find out if he can do a damn thing to alter the terms under which you are repaying the loan against your wishes. I have no idea, but suspect it is unlikely. If he can't, then he has no leverage and you can state that it isn't for him to dictate terms on what help you are offering him.

I agree that a loan or mortgage might be better in an ideal world, but I also do see that it might just be impossible. So find out where you stand before you do anything else - really. There are very good lawyers on legal here and if you simply set out that:

FIL made you a loan towards buying a house. The deal was you repaid him at a rate of 400 a month over X number of years, without any other strings. You have been paying on time and in full for X number of months (years?), but now you've fallen out, and he is threatening you with a demand for the sum in full by June if you don't do as he wants. Can he force you to sell your house to repay him in a lump, or would the existing arrangement stand? There has never been anything in writing.

• then I'm sure someone could advise you on whether he would have a leg to stand on or not. And then at least you'd know.

What an awful, awful situation... Your FIL is being unreasonable, you have offered suitable alternatives for the sake of your MIL and your DH and he's essentially emotionally and actually blackmailing you.
I would pay them back as soon as you can and try to remember it's your home and you will allow who you want to visit when you want. For the sake of your DH and your MIL you are making appropriate compromises, if FIL sticks to his guns, she doesn't visit at all... Simple as!